Question of Faith
A weekly question of faith answered by Cleveland Catholics. Fr. Damian Ference, Vicar of Evangelization and Deacon Mike Hayes Director of Young Adult Ministry in the Diocese of Cleveland co-host with frequent guests from the Diocesan Office who join in the conversation.
Question of Faith
What Role Does the Laity Have to Play in the Homily?
How does the laity influence the homily? We dive deep into the essential role of the laity, drawing from pivotal documents like "Fulfilled in Your Hearing," "Preaching the Mystery of Faith," and "Evangelii Gaudium." We emphasize the preacher's responsibility to connect scripture with the lived experiences of their audience, ensuring that each homily resonates with the faithful inspiring them to live out the gospel in their daily lives.
Authentic preaching requires clergy to truly understand their congregants' experiences. Hear how Father Jim Bacik sets a remarkable example by engaging with university professors, students, and community members to gather diverse insights. This chapter reflects on the broader role of the faithful as bearers of the prophetic spirit and stresses the need for humility and listening by the preacher. By balancing theological knowledge with an understanding of their congregation, priests and deacons can ensure their messages resonate meaningfully.
Passion and preparation are crucial for impactful homilies. Discover varied preparation methods from praying with scriptures to rehearsing in the car, and learn the art of storytelling within a homily. We share personal anecdotes and influential sermons that have significantly impacted spiritual growth. Emphasizing brevity, authenticity, and finding one's unique voice, this episode offers practical advice on honing the craft of preaching, from feedback and collaboration to the emotional weight of love and commitment in scripture. Tune in to explore how dedicated and prepared clergy can shape and inspire their congregations.
Church Search goes to St. Francis Xavier in Medina, OH
Readings for this week can be found here
On today's Question of Faith. What role does the laity have to play in the homily? Hey everybody, this is Question of Faith. I am Deacon Mike Hayes.
Speaker 2:And I'm Fr Eric Garris, vocation Director, but also, as it pertains to this topic, I'm Fr Eric Garris, adjunct Professor at St Mary's Seminary and Graduate School of Theology in the field of homiletics and preaching, and doctoral student at Aquinas Institute of Tech—not technology theology in St Louis—doctoral student in homiletics.
Speaker 1:My friend used to refer to a certain seminary that will remain nameless as the Acme School of Theology. I was like, yeah, that's not great. Yeah, at least you're not going to National Auto Diesel College, which is a real school, by the way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'd love to learn about diesel.
Speaker 1:Auto mechanics.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'd change my own oil Repair trucks. We have a couple of new seminarians who worked as mechanics.
Speaker 1:Oh, very nice.
Speaker 2:One was a diesel mechanic.
Speaker 1:Good to know.
Speaker 2:I don't know if he went there. I think he went to Tri-C.
Speaker 1:Ah, okay, yeah, Well, yeah, of course, yeah, but we're here, mike, we're here, we're here now. No, father Damien, this week no. Father Damien on special assignment and this gave a little preaching workshop to us deacon types the other day. Correct, hence the invitation Right. Nice job, by the way.
Speaker 2:Thank you. So two weeks ago the deacons of the Diocese of Cleveland got together for their convocation. In a couple weeks the priests will be getting together for a little bit of an extended convocation as well, and the topic of the deacon convocation was preaching the gospel of life correct.
Speaker 2:And so it was myself, father Tom Drago, who's also a member of the preaching faculty, and Mary Von Karlowitz in the Office of Human Life. I laid just kind of the groundwork, looking at the liturgical documents of the church and just various expectations that the church has for the church's ministers, namely priests and deacons who are entrusted with the preaching of the gospel, just to examine what is liturgical preaching. What does it mean to be a herald of good news? All of that good stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was well played. Well, it's good, it's fun.
Speaker 2:I kind of joked with Father Drager because I'm currently teaching the first year of seminarians liturgical preaching and I told them I said this is basically the entire class in a 50-minute session, which made me feel terrible. Then I'm like why am I spending 16 hours teaching?
Speaker 2:this, when I can just give these guys a 15-minute thing. So, namely, the three main documents that we looked at were Fulfilled in your Hearing 1982, usccb, preaching the Mystery of Faith, 2013, 14, 15, 16, somewhere around there. And Evangelii Gaudium the Joy of the Gospel. The Joy of the Gospel, yeah. So, interestingly enough, I think inside baseball, when it comes to homiletic prep, people are always like Father, where do you get your ideas from? What happens? What is the homily supposed to be? What happens, what is the homily supposed to be?
Speaker 2:So I often say that the homily is not just a moment of teaching, but it's a moment of unpacking the scriptures and the preacher to tell the story of how is this story, within salvation, a part of the story of the congregation. So, to answer that question of what role do the laity play? They play the most important role Because I think it's the priest or the deacon, who's entrusted with the teaching or with preaching, who needs to ask the question of how is this story, the story of my congregation? So the priest, deacon, needs to be doing just as much of a thorough exegesis, unpacking, study of the scripture as he does of his congregation. Right, know your audience.
Speaker 1:Know your audience number one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and there's an old saying like that the preacher should prepare for a homily with the scripture in one hand and a newspaper in the other. Yeah, sure you know. And bringing those things together, because the beauty of the message of you know, salvation history is that it's timeless in many ways, that these words that Jesus spoke, he is once again speaking to the congregation and you, as priest or deacon, are the messenger, the interpreter of that Right. So it's a crucial role and so much so that in Fulfilled in your Hearing. The structure of the document lends itself to that. So it begins not with homiletic book reviews and what commentaries to consult. It begins with laying the groundwork and saying start with the assembly. Start with the assembly, yeah, not even with the scriptures, not even with the preacher, like the assembly is the proper place in which the gospel is preached, but also drawn out of.
Speaker 1:Whenever I'm preaching, I place myself as the guy in the back who sits in that back row guy in the back who sits in that back row, who showed up today, and when I think about him I'm like, okay, that guy might come every week, he might not come every week, but he came today, sure, and he's looking for a message today. What do I have to say to that guy?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and we talk a lot about one of the buzz phrases, words that we use in the preaching faculty is the homily needs to have skin, homiletic skin, and it sounds kind of weird, you know, but it's like.
Speaker 2:It has to have a tangible reality and affect upon the people where it meets them. But it also draws them out of that place into the way in which their life. So it's born from their life experience and it flows to their life experience outside of Mass. That's why I always try to make the connection with, like, okay, where do we go from here? I always used to, you know.
Speaker 2:This weekend I said in my homily, like the Mass ends with not the priest or deacon saying stay here for as long as you can, it says no, go. Like glorify the Lord by your life. And so part of the homily should be an articulation of how is the Lord, in response to these readings, asking you to give him glory by the way in which you live your life. So it could be, you know, not just an action of like well, let's be nicer this week, you know. But it's how is the Lord inviting us to have a change of vision? How is the Lord inviting us to respond in faith? You know, whatever it may be, who is the Lord calling us to at this moment? Yeah, to reach out to or to be you know any of those things.
Speaker 2:So there's a great line, though it's in Preaching the Mystery of the Faith, where it says, essentially, the best homilies touch on the deepest levels of human experience. Yeah, and I think about that as the homily being a bridge between the lived experience of the people and the liturgy. I mean, the liturgy is the work of the people. It's God meeting his people in their, he's, in their midst. But it's also the bridge between the liturgy of the Eucharist and the liturgy of the Word, where it's not two separate things, where what we do here doesn't connect to what we're gonna do in 22 minutes, but it's not two separate things, where what we do here doesn't connect to what we're going to do in 22 minutes, but it's the bridge between the Word and sacrament, and sacrament in life.
Speaker 1:Yes, and Jesus is present in the Word just as much as he's present in the sacrament, Correct?
Speaker 2:correct.
Speaker 1:So there's the altar of the Word, you know that little ambo that we preach the gospel from.
Speaker 2:There's the altar of the Eucharist, Right, and I think that's the great connection where, at the beginning of Mass, the book of the Gospels is placed on the altar and prior to the Eucharist being elevated upon that altar, what's the first thing that's lifted up and held up? It's the Word. So the same Word that is elevated here becomes the Word made flesh and is elevated here. And I think, to make that connection, that it's all one liturgy, it's all one event. Yes, it's distinguished by liturgy of the Word, liturgy of the Eucharist. But the Christ who is present in the Eucharist, is also present in the Word proclaimed and in the assembly and in the person, the priest, the minister. So it's oftentimes naming where and how God is present in the lives of the people and letting them see you know, yeah, and do we reverence all those places or just one, correct?
Speaker 2:Do we have just as much of a reverence towards the liturgy of the word as we do the Eucharist?
Speaker 1:And that's where we come in big time, exactly, yeah, and to name that, you know, I think, and to articulate that and that's where I you know some of in vocation ministry.
Speaker 2:I kind of consider myself like the Pied Piper of the priesthood, where I go out and I'm all over the place Like you're at a parish, you know the people and they know you, so you can speak to their particular needs and you can challenge them particularly. You know, for me the struggle is always I don't know these people, they don't know me. For me, the struggle is always I don't know these people, they don't know me. And sometimes the gospel is very we're going to reflect on the gospel later on we hear challenging things about divorce and relationship and it's like how do I navigate this? And that's where it's assumed that what role, like the priestess, father, the deacon, is one who is a part and from that community and serving that community. So like that's where the established relationship really really, really, really really matters.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, yeah, and there are things I think are universal too. You know, it speaks to the human heart all the time, and so you can always rely on those things if you need to, right. But I always start to think then, as I start to get to know the community a little bit more. I say, well, wait a minute now. How does that universal speak to this particular?
Speaker 2:Correct and that's I mean. So salvation history, it's Jesus is speaking in universal statements. But I think we need to name how is this particular Right? That's where the interpretation of what role did the laity, the priest, the deacon should know his people, should know their wants, their needs, their desires, what burdens them, what darkness is a part of their life, all of those things, so as to name that and to speak into that. Because, if you think of it, the mass is the mass. Like, I can't just make up whatever I want the opening prayer to be, I can't just make things like that. We've got boundaries, we need to operate within. But then, like, the homily is the point where, like you can very deliberately name these things and name these places and articulate these things in a particular way, because outside of that there's not a lot of wiggle room Question for you, and the answer to this question for me is usually yes, so I'll say it in advance.
Speaker 1:but do you preach to yourself?
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Yeah and that's where so a homily is born out of my own lived experience, oftentimes as a Christian, not just as a priest but as a member of the body of Christ, and oftentimes when I pray with the scriptures, the Lord is sharing and speaking. And I'm unpacking these things, and St Paul's got that line that what's given to the one is sharing and speaking, and I'm unpacking these things, and St Paul's got that line that what's given to the one is given to the one for the sake of the many. And so like yes, this pertains to me as a 34-year-old priest, but like how does this also pertain to a 42-year-old single man or woman, or a 53-year-old married man or woman, or?
Speaker 2:an 18-year-old student you know like, and that's where I think the unpacking needs to be and the connections need to be made in our own hearts, but also in the hearts of the people.
Speaker 1:And I always think of like way of life too. I always say you know how would this be elevated enough that a theology professor will get something out of it, but then, at the same time, it won't be over the head of a 14-year-old child.
Speaker 2:Correct, correct and that's why I would love and really getting into some detail of stuff like we were talking before.
Speaker 2:I know you have a little bit of like a homiletic review board where you share some of your stuff, but then people give feedback and which, by the way, like it's as a preacher, it's always helpful to have feedback and I think to know that. What role do you have? You don't just have the role in oh well, father's thinking about me, but after the fact, like, mike, you're a married man, like part of it is articulating, like this is where and how, like hey, thank you so much for doing this. You know, like, actually, I would have liked to hear this, you know. So we have a role in preparation, but also in the reflection, because one of the things I'll often do is, as people are coming out of Mass, I'll say, well, father, that was a great homily. And I'll say, well, thank you so much If you can share with me what was great about it?
Speaker 1:What was great?
Speaker 2:And they can reflect that. Or, like I didn't like that one, what was going on there. So that's always the hard thing, but that's always the hard thing. But I would love to see, because I think we focus so much on the review and the criticism and all that, but like I would love to see priests, deacons ministers of God's word, praying with the people and like hearing their reflections on these words, my first assignment at St Raphael Bay Village.
Speaker 2:Father Tim Gouraud, my pastor, and I, we used to make a holy hour together every week with the scriptures, but then we would talk about and pray for people in the community and as these, things came up. He's like this really makes me think of Nancy and John and that whole thing. But I would love to hear that people articulate that, to know that I want to know your heart and I want to know how the Lord is speaking to you, because I'm trying to speak to how the Lord is speaking to you.
Speaker 1:but to hear you particularly say this is how I hear God speaking here would be huge, right yeah, yeah, we do that as a staff at St Chris during our staff meetings is that we all come together, we look at the readings ahead of time and then we, you know, we kind of offer something, and every once in a while someone will say, you know, oh, this reminds me of this situation that we have in the parish right now, or this reminds me of my parents, or this reminds me of this situation that I ran into, and we kind of all share that, and then we can kind of those of us who are preaching can kind of mix and match from that, if it works.
Speaker 2:And you're hearing directly, you know, and you're hearing from the people to whom you're preaching, and I think that's where, like, their needs are being brought out in a very real way as they name that. And then you see that and you're like, oh, I never thought what it would be like to. I will never be a 45-year-old woman with three to four kids. I don't know what that's like. But to hear from a 45-year-old woman with three to four kids, I don't know what that's like.
Speaker 2:Right, but, to hear from a 45-year-old woman with four kids what this reading looks like. I'm not just then spitballing and saying, you know well, you know his families, you know, because that can also come off as very tone deaf. Yeah, that's right, and so I don't want to speak to an experience that I don't know, and I also don't want to speak to an experience that I don't know, and I also don't want to just be making stuff up.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, and that's why I think it'd be great for, like you, to share, like Father, this. You know, prior to I was praying with the scriptures this week and this is how this really spoke to me. Yeah, you know, and that's why the church and we do this here. We read the readings before. Please read the readings preaching.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And then come to Mass prepared and so that when you say well, father, I wasn't expecting that. When I prayed with the readings this week, I thought about this.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So there's a lot there. Yeah, and then you sort of then have some cred, right, sure With us, right, yeah, as I was preparing for my homily this week, I didn't at, you know, the plucking out of the eye that way it was last week.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2:But I really think it's all of our word of God. Yes, as priests, as deacons, we kneel before the bishop, receive the holy gospel, whose herald you have become. What is it? Believe what you read, Something. Believe what you read, live what you believe and conform your life to the mystery of Christ.
Speaker 1:I think that's the priest one Believe what you—the last one's practice what you teach Correct. That's it, yeah, believe what you read, teach what you believe. Believe what you read, teach what you believe, practice what you teach Correct.
Speaker 2:And priests as you kneel and they give you the saboria, receive the offerings of the people of God. Who's—?
Speaker 1:That's what we were going to say. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We got it you guys, I mean these people hand just like we do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right, hopefully better than we just did Correct yeah, so one of my friends was a campus minister, father Jim Basic, who you might know. At Toledo, okay, and at the university, parish, where he was pastor, he would preach almost every week and what he would do this was a little much for me, but I respected him for doing this so much. On Monday he would take a group of university professors to lunch and their only requirement was that they would have had to have read the scripture and have an idea, and they would come in and they would share those ideas with him. He would say nothing, he would just listen.
Speaker 1:The next day he'd take a group of students it was usually different groups all the time, it wasn't the same people every week and then he would bring those group of students in. He would listen to what they have to say. Same thing Free lunch, I will pay for ideas, basically. Third, he would take members of the community on Wednesday and do the same thing, and then on Thursday he'd start to write and then then Friday, he'd give a first draft to a select group of people who were always the same, and he said that the reason that he took those people was because he knew that all of the other people will give him ideas, but they probably wouldn't be comfortable enough to criticize him. The people who were in the smaller group were people who he'd known for a long time and that, yeah, that they know him, not his father, jim, maybe you know hey.
Speaker 1:Jim, you know kind of thing. And they all tell him the truth and so he trusted their judgment, and then he would finish it up like Saturday morning and I think that's amazing.
Speaker 2:I think there's a profound sense of humility in that and I think of also, you know, Pope Francis, and we look at the synodal way of being a listening church, that's quite literally listening to the people and their needs and how the Lord is speaking to them. And I think that's where, like we look at and I often, as you know, vocation director when we say, oh, we need more, we need to pray for vocations, we're just subtly saying we need more priests and deacons and nuns. I'm like we all have a vocation, we all have a role in this. I think of the line of Moses at the end.
Speaker 2:Think about how great it would be if we all received a prophetic spirit. Oh, guess what you did in your baptism? The Lord anoints you priest, prophet and king. So we all have a role. We're all called to be messengers of the word. We're entrusted with it in a particular way by the church and we receive formation in that regard. But the formation we received is ultimately at the service of the church and that's why I think sometimes the struggle when there's a newly ordained priest or deacon. They want to just tell you all their Bible knowledge of what they know about this, but what does it mean for the people?
Speaker 1:Yeah, right, this isn't a theology class, correct. And how is it?
Speaker 2:being received by the people Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, you could come off as a know-it-all too, right, right, let me tell you everything that I know, that you don't know, right?
Speaker 2:Well, you have a master's in theology, but you don't necessarily have a master's in knowing the people that you're interested to preach.
Speaker 1:That's a very good point and I think that's where you know to know them to love them.
Speaker 2:And that's where, like I think and you know, maybe you'll find this and just I know you're new here, but like I felt, like at least in the one parish I was at for four years, like you hit your stride, like year three, three, because you're like I finally really know these people and they really know me and I have a profound sense of comfort here and that's familial, that's father that's speaking to your people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know the last year of formation I was doing some lay reflections at Sagrada Familia, which was a completely different culture from me, and I really got to know them over the course of the year and I felt like at the very end of it I was like man, I actually want to stay here and preach for another year, but you're called where you're called and you're told to go where you're told to go.
Speaker 2:But you're right, after a while you kind of really feel like you can preach a word to these folks and I've even heard from people in parishes who have received like a newly ordained or so, and they're like it's so great, you know we can tell that Father's, you know getting comfortable Like, and that you can perceive that and part of it is Father probably is relatively uncomfortable because he's like oh my gosh, I'm actually doing this. What's happening, you know like, am I turning people away from the church, am I not? You know like?
Speaker 1:all of that, this is happening yeah within my humanity.
Speaker 2:I'm bearing that and I think you know, as priests and deacons, we take this call very, very seriously. Father Damien, who's not here today, I'll give you a Father Damien line. He had said that someone had come up to him relatively recently and they said something to the effect of I've recognized that a lot of newer or younger priests slash deacons, whomever are like really good preachers and they're passionate about it. And Father Damien said do you know why? And I go, why? Because they have to be, we have to be this, because that's a big point for people. They want to hear where and how is God present in my life and for us to be in the blessed position, in the very formidable position to name that is a reverential and solemn place to be.
Speaker 1:How do you practically prepare? I think I told you a little bit about my—you sort of alluded to my thing.
Speaker 1:So I give my first draft to a group of about—there are about 30 people. They don't all weigh in right. They're the ones that are able to and that can get into me in a reasonable amount of time. They weigh in and then I just take their feedback and I use it for draft two. And then I have a preaching coach, a guy Paulist, who I've been friends with, Father Jack Collins, and then I actually deliver the homily, like it's Sunday go, and then he sits there with a stopwatch and a yellow pad while I do this on FaceTime for him, and then he gives me some better feedback, usually about the technical elements of things.
Speaker 2:So there is just no normal, I think. Part is I know as a deacon you typically preach like what once or twice.
Speaker 1:Yeah, once a month usually, sometimes twice.
Speaker 2:There's times as a priest where you're preaching two to three times a day in different celebrations. Yeah right, you know. So I think the big question that I always ask is like all right, first of all, where am I going?
Speaker 1:Because it could be different. I mean this weekend.
Speaker 2:It was two different places.
Speaker 2:Some weekends it's three different places and asking that question where am I going? What is the type of celebration? So, like this weekend, I had a 7.30 mass at St Basil's in Brecksville and then I was at 5.30 at St Francis Xavier in Medina. The message should look different because that 5.30 is more youth-oriented. So what does this mean?
Speaker 2:I typically begin on Mondays pray with the scriptures, sit down. Is there a line, is there a phrase? Is there something that grabs me? Me Last week it was weird and I told the people. I said you don't know me and I typically don't do this, but you wouldn't know that. So I'm going to tell you, like before I had any thought or image or whatever. A title just came to mind which was Out of the Box Christianity and so I just started there. I'm like I'm just going to name this first and I kind of worked from there. And a lot of times I think about it. I don't write out a text often, not because I don't think it's good, it's just I. I know myself well enough to know that, like if I had that in front of me, the only thing I'll write down is, like numbers, if.
Speaker 1:I'm using things. Oh, sure yeah.
Speaker 2:Um, but I I oftentimes will rehearse in my car, in my car a lot I'll record myself. I'll listen to that. It's weird to hear your own voice.
Speaker 2:Yes, it is, but I think after COVID everyone got kind of relatively used to it with the amount of live stream going on, but yeah, it's all different depending on what's going on, but it's always praying with Daily Mass. I'll always read the readings the night before and I say, all right, Lord, I'm going to bed, but then I think of that line from the Psalms I'm. I better remember you and you. I'm used to the night. I'm like, give me a homily idea.
Speaker 2:And you wake up and whatever I do always joke with the guys, because there's that line where some priests would be like, well, I don't need to prepare a homily, because the Lord told me to give me the words at the appointed time. And I say, yes, father, but do you realize that the preceding line is when your head is on the line and they're trying to kill you and you're taking the stand, not on a Tuesday morning at 830, when you didn't prepare?
Speaker 1:Yeah right.
Speaker 2:And that is also a humble thing that the Lord does use. And you say things you're like whoa, and people reflect back to you not just what you said but what they heard, and there's been times where I'm like there is 0% chance that I said that I said that right, but I'm really glad that you heard that, because that means that God is working in the translation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's right so it's a humbling thing.
Speaker 2:I love preaching. I'm passionate about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, same here.
Speaker 2:When the bishop asked me to get this degree, I got called by Lisa. His secretary was like Bishop wants to talk to you, you're not in trouble. I'm like, oh gosh, what are they going to ask me to do? He's like I want you to get advanced degree in preaching.
Speaker 1:I'm like oh yeah, absolutely I love preaching.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 100%. I'm like I'm just glad you didn't say canon law or something and I love and I tell the guys and I sometimes tear up, I'm like this matters so much to me because you know, my own conversion was really born out of the preaching of an individual, father Andy Turner, when he was a newly ordained priest. But I also say like I really want my family and friends and everyone I love, to have priests who are passionate about the preaching of God's Word, because it matters to me and it matters to them and should matter to you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely yeah, and I think that's the same for me. It's like I've sat—I'm going to take this slightly negative. I've sat in the pews long enough that I've heard really really good homilies and I've heard really really lousy ones where I can tell what father just didn't prepare or deacon just didn't prepare, for that matter.
Speaker 2:Deacon Mike. Yeah, exactly, deacon, just didn't prepare for that matter.
Speaker 1:Deacon Mike? Yeah, exactly, Deacon Mike did prepare, but one of my priest friends who's no longer with us, father Ned Coghlan, who used to be the pastor at Xavier Parish down in Manhattan. I was on retreat with him one time and he said you know? He said, here's something you should all know. He said if I'm having a bad week and I didn't prepare and I mailed it in, and he goes and you're walking out and you just go. Oh, that was very nice, father. He goes I know you're lying, because I know I mailed it in he goes. I would so much more really prefer you to say you know, you really mailed it in today.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and you know that. But I think that's also the, if you have, if you love your priest, you love him enough to share or deacon, you know, yeah, yeah, I mentioned this at the deacon convocation. I said the worst thing you can tell any priest after Mass is good homily on a day in which the deacon preached Father, great homily. Today I didn't even preach.
Speaker 1:I'm glad it was great, but he did it. Yeah, he did it, oh really.
Speaker 2:You're not Deacon, mike.
Speaker 1:Nope, nope, that's not me. No, good try and yeah, so it's all good stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, obviously we're passionate about this and hopefully you are too about having the gospel preached to you in a passionate, loving, articulate way that meets your human experience and is born out of your human experience yeah, and I think most of the time for me, I pray with the scriptures and three things happen.
Speaker 1:one, I discover something I've never seen before. I mean, I've seen it before, but I've never seen it before, you know, and I'm like or heard it before, for that matter, you know. And then that either jogs something that I've learned along the way, that now I can say, oh, I learned that when this happened and I can just tell that story. I can say, oh, I learned that when this happened and I can just tell that story. How do I tell that story? Well, and my preaching coach, Father Collins, he has a great line for me. He goes Mike, this is a nine-minute homily and it should be a six-minute homily. And I'm like, okay, tell me what. And he goes you went on and on and on with this story, here's the story. And then he will tell me the story much more simply and I'd be like that's all you need. And then I'll go and I'll tell the story that way and I'm like, yeah, he was absolutely right, yeah, if you can't say it in seven, don't say it in nine.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and also like writing is different from speaking. You know, the things that you would include in writing a story out which a lot of detail and a lot of color are not necessary. In speaking, that's what I think a lot of people get wrong.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think there, and that's where we talk about, and you talked about a voice. Like I do this whole thing with guys and talk about like finding your voice, like I don't want you to preach like Father Robert Barron, I don't want you to preach like Father Mike Schmitz, or like I'm like I want you to preach like you, the Lord has given you a voice.
Speaker 1:Use that voice.
Speaker 2:But there's a difference between telling the story and being a storyteller. Yeah, that's right, and that's where one of my favorite days in class is. I play a Norm MacDonald video from when he was on Conan O'Brien where he tells this convoluted, long joke about nothing the moth joke. Yeah, but you're so, you're so on edge, you know, because he's all these details and things and like there's like you're in the story and I think that's back to the whole thing of like you are in the story of salvation, you are in this reading, you are in this gospel, you are in here, you know.
Speaker 1:So it's like let's's, let's enter into that. Yeah, exactly, and everybody has their own style, sure just?
Speaker 2:you know, just go and find it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but you and like you. Uh, you said you practice in your car. Uh, you're. You're probably in the car much more often than I am, I would suspect. But, um, so I walk almost three miles each day and so, by by, like the last quarter mile, I've got it. Yeah, you know, I've practiced it enough now that I'm like, okay, I think this is good to go now, and let me call Father Jack now and see what he thinks about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and inevitably there are times where you're just stuck.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and for me.
Speaker 2:I find like I'll go to YouTube. There's a couple of different priests, different people that I listen to. I'll call a friend and say what are you doing this weekend?
Speaker 1:You know and I'd like to phone a friend.
Speaker 2:Yeah, seriously, like Saturday morning is priest, call priest and say, uh so your homily, and it's never taken up. But maybe they'll share a word or a phrase that jogs something and that becomes what? The catalyst for your homily. But it's fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's just a lot of fun doing it Right? We have a lot of fun going to churches, so you went to my dear classmate, deacon Mark Temeca. Yes, yeah, so.
Speaker 2:I was at St Francis Xavier in Medina. It's an old farm church kind of thing. It's a small church but it's a beautiful church. I was really struck by the fact that in the church itself, you know they've got statues and different things but they're really like highlighting the Eucharistic revival in the community and so like you can see that they're using images of the community and different things there. But it was fun. I enjoyed being there. Fr Mark Hollis used to be the pastor there, fr Tony Saba's there, fr John Mulholland and then also Fr Kirk Condick is split between there and Our Lady. Help of Christians in Litchfield.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:So Deacon.
Speaker 1:Bob Cavanaugh. Is there, deacon Bob?
Speaker 2:Cavanaugh and his wife Dawn the youth minister I talked to the youths after mass, did a little vocation, discernment, decision-making kind of thing. Nice Watched the end of the Browns game on someone's phone. Was grossly disappointed as typical, but obla di obla da life goes on. Life goes on. Wa la la la la, life goes on.
Speaker 1:And so how are the scriptures?
Speaker 2:speaking to you this week. Well, so we begin with Genesis, the Lord making man and woman, and then we have the gospel that talks about divorce and I think just it's naming the fact that we're created for love and it's not just like the divorce but, like I always say, in relationships where love is primary, anything that isn't love is going to be felt, sensed and experienced as unlove.
Speaker 2:And I think for us to name that, you know, in relationships and just the hurt that can be caused when unlove enters in, and I'm not just saying divorce, but like just naming. Once again, we're made for love, the Lord made us for love, and just to highlight that, yeah, and I would go with commitment this week and say that you know that God is very committed to his people, so he makes human beings.
Speaker 1:You know he's committed to loving us and then you know how committed are we to loving one another and that the you know, often the divorce rate is so high because people don't understand that marriage is about commitment, it's not about happiness. Yeah, and that love love is a choice. Yeah, and it's a continued choice.
Speaker 2:It's not a one-time thing, but it's each and every day and each and every moment.
Speaker 1:You're like how do I do this when I'm grumpy in the morning? My wife has to make a decision to love me. Yeah, when father is grumpy in the morning, you have to make a decision to love him too, and he has to make a decision to love his people. Correct, correct, same with me yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:When we're on our last legs, you know it's time to say, okay, you know and I think that's important for marriage preparation stuff too you know it's like, hey, you know she's going to be angry at you once in a while, yeah, you know you're going to screw things up every once in a while. You know, and you still have to love each other through that, right, you know that's what's going to make it through all the time. I think if I didn't learn that in marriage prep marriage would be a lot harder than it actually is, learn that in marriage prep marriage would be a lot harder than it actually is. But I think that I wake up every day and say well, marriage is about commitment. Let's see how I have to stay committed today.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would. Oftentimes, when I was doing marriage prep more frequently, I would invite the couple and by invite, I would say this is what I want you to do. I want you to memorize your vows because I want them to be not just something that's recited on day one in front of me and family and friends, but, like each and every day, you know that whole sense of commitment. And plus, I always thought it was awkward where I'd be like I, mike, and I'm like I, mike, take you and you're like whispering in your mic to Mike, you're whispering in your mic to Mike as Mike marries.
Speaker 2:But I'm like this is the foundation on which your life is built and to have that be integrated and memorized and a part of who you are, that every day I wake up, I roll over and I say I, mike, take you, marion, to be faithful to you in good times and in bad, in sickness and in health, to love you and to honor you all the days of my life. Boom, I made that commitment and that choice today Exactly.
Speaker 1:We have ours framed in our bedroom.
Speaker 2:There you go. You don't even need to memorize, you just got to look to it, that's right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I always say, in case we forget they're right here, In case I forgot Either Probably let's face it probably more me. Yeah, Forgetfulness happens. Anyway, Father Eric, thanks for all of your great preaching.
Speaker 2:Oh, thank you.
Speaker 1:I have a select group of people who are on my list of in case I die. These people can preach.
Speaker 2:Break in case of emergency, you would be at the top of that list. I appreciate that. I appreciate that that's a humbling thing and, yeah, I like to preach Preachers going to preach, preach, preach, preach preach.
Speaker 1:That's right, exactly, and so we'll have this and a whole lot more. Go to your preacher and give him some feedback this week and give him some ideas while you're at it for next week.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:And come back here next week as well. Here on Question of Faith the faith.
