Question of Faith
A weekly question of faith answered by Cleveland Catholics. Fr. Damian Ference, Vicar of Evangelization and Deacon Mike Hayes Director of Young Adult Ministry in the Diocese of Cleveland co-host with frequent guests from the Diocesan Office who join in the conversation.
Question of Faith
What Did Pope Francis Really Say About Other Religions?
Join us in a compelling exploration of Pope Francis's recent remarks to Singaporean youth, where we, Deacon Mike Hayes and Father Damian Ference, unpack the essence of interfaith dialogue. This episode promises to clear the air on any misconceptions, emphasizing that the Pope respects the distinctiveness of each faith while championing the rays of truth found in all religions. Discover how the Second Vatican Council's teachings guide us toward a harmonious coexistence, as reflected in the Catholic Good Friday liturgy.
Through a nuanced conversation, we take on the common perception of being spiritual but not religious, considering how well-practiced religion naturally includes elements of spirituality. We also delve into how God's grace transcends traditional boundaries, resonating with young people who seek spiritual connections in nature and everyday life. Enhance your understanding of how Pope Francis's messages, often misunderstood, are more about inclusivity and understanding than controversy.
Church Search celebrates Faith and Culture at St Michael's and St. Clarence.
On a more personal note, we explore the liberating journey of letting go for spiritual freedom. This week's readings discuss themes of wealth, humility, and reliance on God. Reflecting on personal experiences with loss, there's a powerful conversation about the desire to declutter and simplify life, setting the stage for meaningful spiritual growth. Prepare for more enlightening discussions as we continue to challenge assumptions and embrace a path of deeper understanding and connection.
On today's Question of Faith. What did Pope Francis really say about other religions? Hey everybody, this is Question of Faith. I am Deacon Mike Hayes. I am the Director of Ecumenical and Interfaith Relations here at the Diocese of.
Speaker 2:Cleveland. Wow, that's a different introduction. It's true that you are, that you are also the Director of Young Adult Ministry and I am Father Damian Ferencz, the Vicar for Evangelization and Secretary for Parish Life. How's that?
Speaker 1:We all have at least two jobs.
Speaker 2:And Professor of Philosophy at Borneo Seminary, Right yeah, and Deacon at St Chris Parish.
Speaker 1:There you go, rocky River Okay well, enough of that.
Speaker 2:Why did you lead with that title?
Speaker 1:Well, because we were going to talk today a little bit about a meeting that Pope Francis had in Singapore recently, where he met with a bunch of Singaporean youth, and one of the things that he said was— Wait, wait, did he say something controversial.
Speaker 2:Oh, you think.
Speaker 1:That's funny, yeah, but he said the following. He said um, all religions are a path to god. They are like different languages in order to arrive at god, but god is god for all. Since god is god for all, we are all, then we are all children of god. Some people are losing their minds over this. Okay, okay.
Speaker 2:Well, let's be good logicians, good Thomists, and not that you're a Thomist, but to at least grant someone not the straw man argument, but like the steel man argument. So what would be the best argument for someone who would be upset with this? It would seem well, if we believe in one God, three persons, the Holy Trinity, and that God saved us by sending his son, jesus to die and rise from the dead to ascend to the Father, send the Holy Spirit upon us, the one true holy Catholic and apostolic church, it would seem that the Holy Father's words would somehow be going against that. That would be the steel man argument for those who would have a hard time with what the Holy Father said. But is that actually what he said?
Speaker 1:No, that's not what he said, and I think the other thing too is that some people were saying oh, the Pope just said one religion is as good as another. Why did the martyrs die? And did he say that?
Speaker 2:No, of course he didn't say that First. And did he say that no?
Speaker 1:of course he didn't say that, first of all, one religion is good, another would just sound dumb, since most religions contradict each other.
Speaker 2:Correct. So what was he saying? What was he doing?
Speaker 1:How would you explain this to someone who would say, wait, does he dismiss the martyrs? All this kind of stuff.
Speaker 2:Someone put it much better than I could put it, so I'm just going to.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's good If it's true. If it's true, it's good right, it doesn't have to be your thought.
Speaker 1:So Tom Hoopes, over at Benedictine, wrote a nice article, I thought, and he was saying that you know the Pope is talking first of all to a group of people who aren't Catholic for the most part. You know Singapore. A very small percentage of people in Singapore are Catholic, and when it comes to religious dialogue, there are problems with that in Singapore, you know, people get offended with each other. People try to use religion as a means of controlling one another, sometimes as a means of hating other people sometimes. And so what he was trying to say was that he's trying not to give Catholics a final word on church teaching. He's trying to give non-Catholics a first word on Catholic teaching, saying, hey, the Second Vatican Council teaches that not that one religion is as good as another, but that all religions have a ray of truth in them that lead people to God. That's it. There's not much more to it than that.
Speaker 2:I'm thinking of Good Friday. Good Friday liturgy, if you're familiar. There are three parts to it. The first part is the procession and the liturgy of the word. The second part are the intentions that are prayed and the veneration of the cross. Actually, I think petition Petitions are first, and then veneration Right, and then the third part is communion. During those petitions there are 10 petitions that are prayed.
Speaker 2:We pray for the Catholic church, but we also then pray for our Christian brothers and sisters who are not Catholic, and then we pray for our Jewish brothers and sisters, and then we pray for those who believe in God, and then we pray for those who believe in God and then we pray for those who don't believe in God.
Speaker 2:So within our liturgy you can learn about what Catholics believe by what we pray, and within the context of liturgy we're learning how it is that we can think about other folks. So I don't think the Holy Father's intention was to say one religion is as good as another. That's certainly not the case, especially if every Mass he gets up and joins the congregation saying I believe in one God and then the rest of the Nicene Creed or Apostles' Creed, if he chooses it. I think, as you say he's reaching out and trying to find some traction. So if someone is not a Catholic or not a Christian, how do we engage them to even talk to us so that we can maybe talk about our faith? And it's certainly okay to be able to say to someone this is where we differ on things. It's good to find common ground, but it's also very respectful to point out the differences that we have.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:I was at a gathering it was probably 10 years ago, soon after I got back from Catholic U and I had to speak with a rabbi and a imam and we talked about our commonalities and I also talked about what makes us different. The fact that we believe that God took on flesh is heretical and blasphemous, but it is part of what we believe. And they said yes, that is I believe that's a big disagreement.
Speaker 2:However, we're still up there talking and having a dialogue, and then we ate lunch together. Right, but to respect the differences is also important too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the other day we were at the. We have this thing called the Conference of Religions, where we put on like one or two symposia a year here in Cleveland. Here in Cleveland, and at this meeting to help plan this, we're talking about, well, what questions should we discuss this year? And someone said, well, I'd like to talk about the difference between religion towards spirituality. And I looked at the person strangely and I said what does that even mean? And he said well, you know, spirituality doesn't need religion Interesting. We're like okay, say more. And there's a Buddhist guy in the room with me at the same time and he looks at me and I look at him and we're both like I would hope that those things do need each other yeah it's the first thought and he, as he kind of went on, he was like basically saying uh, it was a confusing question.
Speaker 1:Is what we came? What was what we came away with? We're like, well, that needs a better title than that yeah but we started to talk a little bit about it and we're saying, yeah, you know, a lot of people do think that sometimes spirituality can be devoid of religion, but religion is a path to spirituality. You can't say that.
Speaker 1:You know you can't say that it's not, and we started to go back and forth on it a little bit. In the end, we just said, okay, this needs a better question, because you're not really saying that.
Speaker 2:Yep, yep, yep.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a lot of times. Well, you'll hear, I'm not religious but I'm spiritual.
Speaker 2:Right, and that's what he was aiming at, right, yeah, but people who practice religion would say that religion practiced well is spiritual. You don't separate those two things. So it would be a deficiency in the praxis, it would seem to me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:But yeah, there are certainly people who would say I have a spiritual life, but I'm not practicing any religion. Anyway, yeah, these things are important, and it's also important to figure out context of what's said, why it's said. I mean, the Holy Father upset people with this. He just upset people up in Belgium too, even church people, when he talked about— About women, no abortion as a hitman being a hitman.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, that one too yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So he's an equal opportunity offender and I no. That's true, and so is Jesus, and that's important to keep in mind. Not everybody liked everything that our Lord had to say. Not everyone liked everything the Holy Father has to say and I'm not saying that Pope Francis is Jesus had to say. Not everyone liked everything the Holy Father has to say, and I'm not saying that Pope Francis is Jesus, but there are similarities in there.
Speaker 2:I think oftentimes we want to hear words that comfort us about our particular stances, views, ideologies, and if someone says something against that, our first reaction is you're wrong. Rather than let me actually see, especially with the Holy Father and media and news. What did he actually say? In what context did he say this and give him the benefit of the doubt that he was acting for the good Right, just in the same way that if someone would disagree, I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you are. What is your best argument here? I'm not starting out with a straw man argument just to mow you down. I want to know your head, I want to know your heart. I want to know what's going on here so I could better understand you and engage you.
Speaker 1:Yeah Right, I think Pope Francis was saying something about how God works. Right, you know that God operates always and everywhere within the graciousness of the human family, no matter where that is that God can operate with all people. God is God for everybody, Correct?
Speaker 2:And so I mean, here's a good way to show that let's say you are not baptized and you do not believe in Christ and you have a profound experience of God's grace before any sacraments have been celebrated. Well, how did that happen? Because, as you say, god is at work and we do live in a graced world Now through the sacraments. That's the particular life of grace and sanctifying grace that's present through the sacraments and the fullness of that grace. Correct, but God's constantly at work and his grace is at work, constantly at work. And his grace is at work even outside or beyond the sacramental system, although the sacramental system is certainly the privileged way to God. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:This is where I see it come most often, too, is with young people. So now we're going to merge both of my jobs together, right, so a lot of young people are not active in the church, right, but that doesn't mean that their lives are devoid of spiritual experience, correct, but God is still operating in their lives in some way. They might not even be aware of it, but most of the time they are. They'll talk about that differently, you know. They'll say well, I see God in nature is a really good example of most people bring. You know, when I'm out standing on a mountain, I just feel, you know, it's just this awesome presence and I really feel like that.
Speaker 1:Well, the Catholic Church teaches that, also, correct. And when we start to put that language out, we become sort of the how would you say, like the interpreters of the Church for them. And then suddenly that starts to become a little more attractive to them, especially if they've already had some experience of Catholicism, and they'll say, oh, and so you know, we work as good translators most of the time of. Well, yeah, that was your experience and we listened to that good synodal kind of work, right, and now we have to translate. Well, what does the Catholic Church have to say about that experience? And it kind of. I've found that that brings people much closer.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And sometimes returning to the Catholic Church when we identify those things for them.
Speaker 2:Have you heard Bishop Wust's Confirmation Homily where he uses the, the water container and the sponge? I don't think so.
Speaker 1:I'm trying to remember if I've been at a confirmation with him.
Speaker 2:Well, he's done this publicly, so I don't think it's a spoiler alert. I saw it when my nephew was confirmed back in the spring. He had, at the front of the sanctuary, looked like a big fishbowl, and then he went up to the fishbowl and he talked about the fishbowl being the whole world and God's grace everywhere. Like you can't, because God's so big and so mysterious. Like you can't, you can't run from him. Where, where will I go If I run to the mountains or here you know?
Speaker 1:that whole song.
Speaker 2:I can't quote it well because I'm a Catholic. But then he had something that looked like a credit card and he he put it within that water and then it expanded. It actually became a great sponge. And then he got to the point where he said you know, you want to stay soaked in this thing, but even if you choose to not practice, you can't escape God's love. It's always there, it's your, your, it's yours to return to it. Do you know what I mean? Like, once you've been marked? Yeah, he says it better than I do.
Speaker 2:Um, so I was thinking that I was always also thinking, obviously the only way to salvation is through Christ, by what he's done, because he's the one who offers us this grace, and what the Holy father said isn't a renunciation of that either. Like Jesus is God. He suffered, died, rose from the dead, sent to the Father for our sake. So anyone who's saved is only saved because of what Christ has done for them ultimately. So it's hard to put all that into a line that you're speaking, to put all that into a line that you're speaking to. You know Singaporean youth Right.
Speaker 1:But anyway, or even at a press conference, you know, on a plane or something.
Speaker 2:And yeah, the Holy Father, I think. And there's a different level of authority between an encyclical and an interview on a plane.
Speaker 1:Oh right. Or an off-the-cuff remark, yeah, and as I I mean, he's done a lot of those things, so and he speaks off the cuff a lot, which is, you know, sort of off the beaten track of prepared remarks that have been vetted and have been looked at to say you know it, might you know? I think a good criticism of Pope Francis actually often would be he should think about the way some things are going to be received before he says them.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Even if he doesn't say what people say, that he's saying it could be, you know it can come out that way to some years.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he'd probably agree with that too.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But you know, I think to begin with a suspicion of the Holy Father's intent that somehow he's anti-Christianity and wants to embrace, like Religious pluralism yeah, yeah that's not true.
Speaker 2:I mean, this is a guy who's telling people that the devil's real and you better go to confession all the time. And he loves adoration. He loves Our Lady. Do you know? When I lived in Rome, I noticed this for the first time. Before he ever travels, he goes to St Mary Major Church, which is the oldest Marian church in Rome, and he always brings her a bouquet of flowers and sits before his favorite icon and prays before he leaves. And then when he returns his trip, before he gets back to the Vatican, he goes back to that side chapel and brings her another bouquet of flowers. He has a great devotion to Our Lady and a lot of people don't know that. But if you ever zoom in when he travels, you'll see there's a bouquet of flowers on that altar Pretty awesome.
Speaker 1:That's nice. Yeah, Our Lady of Untire of Knots, he has a big devotion to, big devotion to as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:And just in case you think we're making this up, this is from Nostra Aet, which is the Declaration of the Church to Non-Christian Religions. I'll just read just a little bit here and it's the Second Vatican Council's document, Correct?
Speaker 2:yes, and, by the way, if you didn't know this, prior to Deacon Mike Hayes having this position, it was over 25 years that Father Joe Holinsky occupied this position within the diocese in interfaith and ecumenism. He retired recently and now that Mike Hayes is deacon Mike Hayes, the bishop thought it would be good for and a natural fit for him to take over this office. So this office was occupied before. It's a new job for deacon Mike, but not a new job in the diocese.
Speaker 1:Correct. Yeah, yeah, and I would say you know just a little background on me, for you know a brief second. Maybe. One of the reasons I thought it was a really good fit for me was twofold. One, when I was in Buffalo in formation, I did some work in this area. I worked with a network of religious communities and we did all kinds of different dialogue kinds of events which were a lot of fun. But then, secondly, my wife's family. Her sister is Jewish. She married a Jewish man converted to the Jewish faith. They've raised their children Jewish. Her aunt, who you met. Well, you met her sister also at ordination, yeah, but her aunt is an Episcopalian deacon, so she's a woman who's a?
Speaker 1:deacon in the Episcopalian church. A couple of her cousins are also of the Episcopalian faith, and then her uncle, who just died a couple weeks ago. He was a Lutheran deacon and he had actually been part of several different. He had converted to different faiths a number of times during his life. So we kind of live this. We kind of live this kind of way that we try to dialogue with each other and remain in peace and harmony with each other at the same time as a family.
Speaker 1:So, it's an interesting place to be. But anyway, back to Nostra Aetate. This is what it says here. It says the Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. Let's just stop there for one second. It rejects nothing that is true and holy, Does reject what's false and not.
Speaker 2:So if you believe in God and you are praying to God, that's a good thing. Yeah, yeah, that's some good traction. We can start there, right yeah.
Speaker 1:She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct in life, those precepts and teachings which, through differing in many aspects from the one she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that truth which enlightens all men. Indeed, she proclaims and must ever proclaim Christ, the way, the truth. Yeah, so that's excellent.
Speaker 2:And it's the both, and so honoring what's true and good, but also recognizing it's not the fullness of what is in the Catholic Church, and being able to sit in the mystery of that. Yes, yeah, it's wonderful.
Speaker 1:So people can stop losing their minds. The Pope didn't say all religions are true.
Speaker 2:He didn't say all religions are equal or that they're all the same.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right he didn't say any of that. He just said there are things that people believe in in other religions that are good, that bring them closer to God and, hopefully, closer to us at the same time. All right, so that sounds good. Hey, you started watching Ted Lasso?
Speaker 2:I did when I was sick. I don't like getting sick but I got sick. I think I wore myself out. That's usually what happens, so it was the Lord's way of making me slow down.
Speaker 1:And maybe making you watch Ted Lasso more.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, it had been recommended by a few people, including me. Yeah, well, you were one of them and I watched. Actually this is embarrassing, but I watched the first episode and then realized I was in season three. Oh no, I'm three.
Speaker 2:Oh no, I'm like, oh no. So then I watched the first episode again and I realized I was in season two, and then I finally got to season one, because that's how it's set up on Apple TV. Yeah, that's right, oh yeah. And then I watched all of season one, however, and I had to reconcile that somehow, like, well, I didn't really want to do that, and you could say, well, I spoiled something in the future, maybe, maybe. But I mean, I thought of it in a spiritual manner and thought, you know, sometimes in life we do things that we wish we hadn't done, and you may say, well, that's going to make your future bleak or sad. But no, I have a healing of memory. So I'm going to ask the Lord to heal my memory so that I and I enjoyed season one, and maybe I'll go back and think of those things or remember them in a different way, so when I watch two and three, that I'll enjoy them. Well, so my life is not over because of some mistakes that I made.
Speaker 1:All is not lost, it's not. Anyway, do you have a favorite character at this point in time in the watching of the Ted Lasso?
Speaker 2:Well, ted's my favorite character. That's male, and is it Kira?
Speaker 1:Kila Kili.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I like Kira a lot.
Speaker 1:And the Brits say Kila.
Speaker 2:I also like the owner of the team a lot too. I do too. Both those women are great.
Speaker 1:I like all of those characters. I think Coach Beard is probably my favorite with his little sort of deadpan lines. Oh, yeah, and I like Roy Kent a lot. I think he's a flawed and interesting character throughout the whole. Many of them are I mean Jamie Tart interesting character throughout the whole.
Speaker 2:Many of them are, I mean jamie tart.
Speaker 1:Certainly is ted, certainly is jamie tart. Don't like, yeah, no, you, you'll, you'll, you may grow to like him I've heard this I've heard this. We'll see, it's uh right now. I don't like him right me either at that point in time. What are you? Season middle season one now? Yeah, yeah, yeah I started to like him.
Speaker 2:But then there's a lot of things, but we'll do a whole show on Ted Lasso. We'll bring in Joe Kronauer. How's that? Let me get through two and three and we'll do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's great.
Speaker 2:Yeah, all right.
Speaker 1:And then this weekend you were pretty busy. You were out at a couple of different cultural masses.
Speaker 2:We had Faith and Culture Mass at St Michael's right, correct when the bishop had the 7 o'clock mass and then great food after, and then the next day St Clarence with the Asian communities, which was awesome, and they ran out of food. It was the first time they had the whole event since COVID Since 2019,.
Speaker 2:I think, we had a mass last year and a speaker, but we didn't have the food. And this year we had the food and ran out of food, but it was a banger and ran out of food but it was a banger. I mean, church was packed and it's wonderful.
Speaker 1:That's great. So St Clarence and St Michael's could be our church search for this week and then readings for this week, 28th Sunday of New Year's Eve. I'm actually preaching at 1130 at St Chris this week, mostly because my preaching cohort class we have an assignment, so we have to preach somewhere, so Father Tim Dahl was gracious enough to let me preach in his stead at 1130 on Sunday you still have a cohort past ordination.
Speaker 2:Is this like a new thing?
Speaker 1:So it's like continuing education. So the deacons are asked if they would like to get a master's degree in diagonal ministry.
Speaker 2:Oh, yes, okay, okay.
Speaker 1:So to finish this off, we have a preaching cohort and then we have to do like a final project kind of thing at the end. So that's what's left. So this is the preaching cohort. What's your idea? What are you going with? So a good teacher? What must I do to inherit eternal life is the question I think that we should ask and I'm part of a fairly affluent parish in Rocky River, ohio. And your money will not save you. What I think that the rich young man misses is even giving away his money won't save him. That'll help, but becoming poor enough that you can just depend on God was a bridge too far for the rich young man. Is that a bridge too far for us?
Speaker 2:You don't want to say this and I would never say this, but even certain sports teams think that if they spend the right amount of money, that they'll be able to get everything right, and that's not true, that's right, and the Cleveland Guardians will pull that off this year and prove it to everybody With a great low salary Low salary and a championship team, we hope.
Speaker 2:I'll make mention of this just because the first time I heard it I was like that's awesome and I never understood that before. So there's a line where Jesus says children how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God. It's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for one who is rich to enter the kingdom of God. Now, I always thought that the needle was a sewing needle and there's no way in you know what that a camel could pass through that. Sure, but later on I learned that the city of jerusalem was enclosed by high walls and during there was, I think there's seven or eight gates. I've been to the holy land once and the gates are open so that all the traffic can pass through and the animals and all this, but if the city is under attack, those gates are closed. So the only way for people who have been left outside the city to get back in are to crawl under these small portals that are maybe less than a foot high and humans can go under there, but a whole army can't fit under there, and they're called a needle. And so in order for a camel to get under there. There, and they're called a needle, and so for an order, in order for a camel to get under there, two things are going to have to happen. Maybe it's a little more than a foot and a half, but they're these little small portals.
Speaker 2:So a camel would have to get rid of everything on its back, like all the baggage that it carries, and then it's also has that hump, and it would be super awkward. Could it do it? Yes, but what would it have to do? It would have to get rid of everything else and lower itself and humble itself and get through that thing. And the same is true of anyone who's rich wanting to get into the kingdom. You got to let all that stuff go. You can't take that with you. It's actually an emptying yourself that you find your freedom. And when you have a lot of things, it doesn't have to be necessarily just money, but it could be possessions, it could be relationships, but things that we're holding on to that keep us from entering the kingdom of God. And it's when we make a gift of ourselves and let ourselves go that we actually find our true freedom.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I worked in a hospice my senior year of college and one of the things I noticed was it was two things really. One was that people didn't necessarily regret the things that they did all the time. They regretted the things that they didn't do, the chances they didn't take, the forgiveness not offered, all those kinds of things right. But then the second piece was I noticed that gradually, as I visited each time, it became easier and easier for people to just kind of let go of things. Yeah, you know, they started to let go of different possessions that they have, things that you know they thought were really important, that were just no longer important, ideologies that they had that were no longer important to them. They realized they had wasted some time kind of holding on to. Yeah, there was just this great letting go. Yep, you know of things all the time, and so can we let go of the things that kind of keep us separated from God and less willing to be embraced by God.
Speaker 2:Yeah, when I had to move my dad's possessions all out of his home when he was in the nursing home, I did that mostly by myself and it was terrible it is terrible.
Speaker 1:I had to do the same thing for both of my parents.
Speaker 2:I made three piles. The one pile was yes, I absolutely will hold onto this, like family archive stuff, photographs. And then there was a no pile, like this is going in the garbage or whatever to Goodwill or Catholic Charities or Westside Catholic Center. And then there was the maybe pile and the maybe pile was pretty big, but what I noticed was the longer thing sat in the maybe pile that became the no pile. Like you can let this go, and I think that's true in the spiritual life too. There's so many things that we think I have to have this or this has to be at the center of my life, and the more you think about it, actually I don't need this. And you just actually I don't need this, and just the most essential things, like God and your faith and family and friends and the other things, it's like that's all right, and even then, at the end of the day, it's just like make myself a total gift. But that takes work.
Speaker 1:It does take work. My dear friend, father Tom Colgan, who's a Jesuit who lives out in Seattle now.
Speaker 1:he was on my staff at Canisius and when he was moving he was a West Coast Jesuit and his provincial called him back, so he was leaving Canisius and he gathered up all this stuff and he put them out in the loading dock for the moving company to come and take. Well, instead of the moving company coming to take it, waste management assumed it was all garbage and they picked it up and they put it on their waste management compactor and compacted everything he owns. I mean everything Diplomas, gifts he got from his parents, gifts he got from the Native Americans when he was working with them, things he could never recover His paints, his drum set, all kinds of really important things.
Speaker 1:And I was so angry and he was so not Like he, just he just came into my office and sat down. I said I said, father Todd, how you doing? And he was like well, you know, I have a really deep attachment to my things and now I don't, yeah, and so I just have to let this go. And I was like, man, you're a better man than I am yeah, it's a mature man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was really great.
Speaker 2:I hope to be there. I'm on my way, I think having lost both parents even now, like I get something, give it away. I give a lot, like I don't want a bunch of stuff and I don't want to have people clean up my stuff when I'm dead and say why stuff?
Speaker 1:and I don't want to have people clean up my stuff when I'm dead and say, why the hell did he hold on to all this? Yeah, that's where I am. I'm like I don't want someone to have to do this for me. I have this big closet in my house. I just have to purge and get rid of everything. So that'll be a summer project this year anyway.
Speaker 2:Alright, well, it's good talking.
Speaker 1:Yeah, good talk. Always good to be here. The Pope didn't say all religions are equal, and we'll have this and a whole lot more next time here on Question 3. Thank you.
