Question of Faith
A weekly question of faith answered by Cleveland Catholics. Fr. Damian Ference, Vicar of Evangelization and Deacon Mike Hayes Director of Young Adult Ministry in the Diocese of Cleveland co-host with frequent guests from the Diocesan Office who join in the conversation. Sponsored by Briefcase Marketing--check them out at https://www.Briefcase.marketing
Question of Faith
Is it REALLY the Most Wonderful Time of the Year?
Is the holiday season truly the "most wonderful time of the year," or does it come with its own set of challenges? Deacon Mike Hayes and Fr. Damian Ference are joined by Terri Yohman, Director of Marriage and Family Ministries to open up the raw and often overlooked emotions of grief and loss that can surface during the holidays.
We share our personal stories of navigating holidays marked by the absence of loved ones and how grief can manifest in various forms, from job changes to relationship breakups. Terri brings an essential perspective on the importance of self-compassion and the emotional weight we unknowingly carry, helping us acknowledge that our realities don't always match the holiday ideals.
The weight of grief and loneliness can feel heavier during the holiday season, but there's hope and support available. Blue Christmas services offered by local parishes, like St. Mary in Hudson and St. Justin Martyr that are featured in this week's Church Search, provide a comforting space for those facing their first holiday without a loved one.
Reflecting on the first Sunday of Advent's Gospel's message, we encourage avoiding distractions and unhealthy coping mechanisms. Moreover, we discuss the struggles college students face with homesickness and the importance of meaningful farewells. Lastly, we highlight how Thanksgiving traditions, from parades to classic films, can foster inclusion, urging listeners to reach out and ensure no one is left to celebrate alone.
On today's Question of Faith. Is it really the most wonderful time of the year? Hey everybody, this is Question of Faith. I'm Deacon Mike Hayes. I am the Director of Young Adult Ministry here in the Diocese of Cleveland.
Speaker 2:And I'm Fr Damian Ferencz, the Vicar for Evangelization.
Speaker 3:I'm Terri Yeoman, the Director of Marriage and Family Ministry.
Speaker 2:Welcome back Terri.
Speaker 3:Glad to be here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so is it really the most wonderful time of the year? So people struggle with the holidays, right, yeah, sometimes and of course there's that song.
Speaker 2:It's the most wonderful time of the year. Yeah Ding dong.
Speaker 1:Oh, the puking from Will Ferrell. Yeah, the.
Speaker 2:SNL skit. It's hard not to think of that, but it could be and it could not be and that's why we asked the question, because it depends on where you are in life and what your situation is and what you've gone through. But we're here today and we brought Terry in because she's got a background in family counseling that for some people the holidays are very difficult to navigate.
Speaker 1:The holidays difficult for you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I actually just visited the cemetery today. My mom died 23 years ago. Two days ago it was November 24th of 2001. And I actually visited her grave on Sunday too, on my way down to Ashland. But yeah, my last two Thanksgivings when my mom was alive were in a cancer home. So the last Thanksgiving she was down to 78 pounds. So, yeah, I miss her and my dad's gone too, so I don't have a huge family. So, for some people, they love the holidays and I enjoy Thanksgiving. I enjoy Advent and Christmas, but it's a little different because of my own experience of loss and grief.
Speaker 1:Yeah, similar for me. My mom was last week. It was four years for her, so the anniversary of her death was last week, the 20th, and then my dad is happy Thanksgiving, and Thanksgiving will be the sixth anniversary of his death.
Speaker 2:Did either of your parents die on actual thanksgiving, or there's the week of or?
Speaker 1:what week of for my dad?
Speaker 2:yes, before or after. Do you remember?
Speaker 1:I don't remember okay, um, marion, my wife's mother was the same time of year also and then, uh, my college roommate died like first week of december. We put our dog down last year the december, you know so. So it's, if I can get to December 15th, I'm good, if I don't get to December 15th, we got a hard time.
Speaker 2:How about you, Terry? What do you make of all this?
Speaker 3:Well, I'm always fascinated because thanatology the study of all of that physical, psychological, about death and how it affects us and what we go through I'm always just curious about it, and so I like to think of what people believe and how they believe and how they rely on their spirituality really can help and support them as they go through grieving process. So for me personally, my parents are still alive, thank the good Lord.
Speaker 3:My husband lost his father a couple of years ago. So that's always tough and I think everybody and the other piece, I think when we talk about grieving or loss it doesn't always mean death. We can have somebody who has experienced dementia during that year or you're talking about being down in weight. So your mother was still alive, but there was decline, there were changes, and so I think there are those parts or loss of relationships, even you know you could be grieving the loss of a boyfriend or a girlfriend or a good friend.
Speaker 3:It can be all kinds of things. The pet like you were talking about Mike there's many things that go into it, and I'm always really.
Speaker 2:Job loss. You know move, or people who used to live close to you move. Like you say, a breakup could be um, a change in life. Maybe you had, you were a student, and now you're trying to get a job, or you're out of a job or you're you lost. Whatever you just said, the job loss thing, yeah, there's a lot of things you could grieve all of those things.
Speaker 3:I think that they all play into how it impacts us and whether or not, we're going to have a good holiday or a bad holiday.
Speaker 3:Um, I think the one big thing that I would say would be it, when it is difficult, that you realize that you need to be gentle with yourself and really be careful, because that the there I used to um susan l LeSure was her name whenever I was in counseling and some of the bereavement things like. She always talked about grief as being a suitcase and it was a grief case that you put under the bed and when there was a loss that would come out and every grief you ever had was in that case and it would explode.
Speaker 3:There's somebody else that talks about like trying to push a ball underwater. And you keep trying to hold that ball down and no matter how hard you push, at some point the ball's going to come out and fly open, fly up in the air and the mess is everywhere.
Speaker 1:Yeah that speaks to me. That's a good one. I like that image Right.
Speaker 3:And so those different images of what we do, and I think we can fall into this trap of, like we said, is it the most wonderful time of the year where we're trying to put a bow on it and make it look pretty, and that we're doing, oh, we're great, this is lovely, and we've got the smile on our face? And we tend to be idealistic people, and then when we're not having it, we're sad because we don't have it. So I think it's important to think of all of those things too that come into play to make it not the most wonderful time of the year, that's for sure.
Speaker 2:And we don't want this show to be Debbie Downer, but what we do want to do is address reality. So one of the ways you make your way through grief is by acknowledging it and also then showing gratitude for what you do have or what you did have. And a lot of times the fact that you miss someone or you feel heartache is a sign that you've loved, and you've loved well, because if you didn't, you wouldn't feel any of those things. So I think of those things when I think of Thanksgiving. And as we move, you know, through Advent and toward Christmas, like that the Lord's going to come again, that there is meaning to life, and those we've, we've.
Speaker 2:I wrote, just wrote a note to my seventh grade teacher. She wrote me a little note and gave me a little gift and I wrote her back and I said, yeah, I miss my mom and dad, but I hope to see them again. I look forward to that day. And in the meantime, the fact that the Lord was not born in a castle or a palace or a sterile hospital, but in a pretty messy place surrounded by animals that probably stank, gives me hope, because that's where the Lord wants to be. He wants to be born into the messiness of our lives too, and he hasn't abandoned us or forgotten us. That's the beauty of the incarnation. Like he knows what it's like to feel grief and sorrow and pain and he's with us in those things. And so, as the church, and like the comfort of the Eucharist and all that and going to mass, those things are good and healthy and holy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and if we didn't have grief and sorrow and tough things in our life, we wouldn't know what the good things are in our life either.
Speaker 3:Right, you can't celebrate the mountains if you don't have the valleys.
Speaker 2:If you don't fast, you can't feast, right, yeah, good one for Thanksgiving. Come on, get more, More cliches. Let's go Well.
Speaker 3:I think too, when we're in that place, we have a tendency to believe also that as a year passes it's going to get easier. And you know, they used to say there were like these stages and if you could get to the part where it was acceptance, and people get real angry because they're like acceptance it's not like I'm accepting, like I'm fine with it, and that's not what it means. It just means that you realize that this loss has happened or this change has occurred. And what does my life look like now?
Speaker 2:Yeah, how do?
Speaker 1:I change it? Yep, this is the reality of where I'm at. My friend talks about wakes, that way he goes. I have to go to see if this is real now.
Speaker 2:You know I was like, oh, that's, yeah, that's a good way to look at that, Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Let me say this too, because I was with Father Mark Riley yesterday. We were talking about our parents and I was telling him how grateful I am that Catholics bury the dead and we have cemeteries, because at least I have a place to go, I can go and be where my parents' bodies are. I know they're not there anymore, but their bodies are and I await the day of the resurrection and it's nice just to have, because we're bodily creatures, right? So it's not just thinking abstractly. Okay, my parents are with the Lord now in heaven, which I hope and believe they are, but I still miss them and their bodies are in the ground and I like to go where that ground is and spend time there. You know, nice yeah.
Speaker 1:Mine are out of state. Yeah, yeah, I know that makes it tricky, yeah, no, but that's okay. You know, in in my, in my home, when I walk in, there's a picture of my mom and dad right in the front foyer. When we walk in, yeah, and my wife knows not to not to move it, and if it moves just an inch, I know it's the one thing I'm kind of like anal retentive about. I'm like nope, that stays there. You know, and it's one of the first things I see when I come in every day, so that works for me Well, and how we remember people also.
Speaker 3:It's a very healing piece, and I really appreciate what you said, father Davian, about the belief that we have about heaven and the communion of saints, all of that. There are many people that are Christian that don't have that part. They only believe in that personal relationship with Jesus and not the communion of saints. And it's like, this is huge, like it's a very different reality when you do believe that the veil is really thin.
Speaker 3:And that's like to me. It's like I've always felt, that I've always just like felt that the veil is so thin and they're right there and that we do have that sort of ability to honor them and still be speaking with them and know that they're with us in some ways.
Speaker 2:I made a retreat maybe a year after my dad died. It was my annual retreat. I was out in the desert in Arizona and it occurred to me for the first time and I probably learned this somewhere in theology class. You know it was head knowledge, but it wasn't heart experiential knowledge at that point. But it was that wherever Jesus is, his church is, and his church, of course, is here on earth, church militant, then church suffering and purgatory and church triumphant in heaven. So that means wherever Jesus is, his church is. So wherever Jesus is, if my mom and dad are part of the body of Christ, there they are too.
Speaker 2:So anytime I'm celebrating mass or receiving communion like, I'm also in communion with the communion of saints, because Christ is intimately espoused to his church, and that gives me great hope too. It's a great consolation and a comfort, as you say, that if you, communion or the Eucharist isn't part of your tradition, that would be something you'd miss out on. So the communion of saints are awesome, and we talked about this the other day, deacon Mike, I think it was last Tuesday. We were talking about when our parents died and a couple other people had parents die in November. It's not a bad time to die, because that's what you know. As a church, we pray for the dead, and the trees are, you know losing their leaves around this part of the country.
Speaker 1:And sometimes other families around remember and things like that too.
Speaker 3:I think, too, one of the tasks that I would say for folks not only relying on your spirituality and your faith to help you with that, but one of the challenges is that we really have to stop and acknowledge the illusion that we're in control and that it makes you look at that, that you are not in control, and that's a big struggle for a lot of people that they have to stop and do that.
Speaker 2:Yeah for sure. So, terry, what? What would you say to, let's say, a family or a couple or a person who seems to have everything right now, that their life looks like a Hallmark card and they're thinking I, I've been blessed, I don't really have any suffering? How do I think about other people's if I haven't gone through this myself? Because some folks God bless them like they're doing great and it looks like the Hallmark movie and everything. People are alive and they're healthy and things seem okay. What do you say to that?
Speaker 3:I guess my question would be what's their goal? Are they trying to like? Are they stopping and thinking about this Like we're perfect and we're doing great, so I don't have to worry about that at all.
Speaker 3:And sometimes I think folks like that could be moving through and hurting other people not even knowing it, like just because of statements you make, because we really never know where someone is with their grief if they've had, you know, pregnancy losses or anything. So I think it's one where we would want people to stop and be sensitive and then even just like if you're curious about that, talking with someone about what their loss is like. How do we build empathy? How do we learn to stand in someone's shoes and really just listening to what they're willing to share?
Speaker 3:I would just like to hear what that was like.
Speaker 3:You know what it was like if you found somebody that you loved, and I think of those things of being able to realize for yourself, like if I was driving and there was a car wreck and I had to be there and there was this traumatizing loss.
Speaker 3:I may not have the loss, but I can still realize that if that was someone I loved, it would be traumatizing and I would be so sad. So, drawing on what their gifts and talents are and being open to that and, I think, being open to just allowing people to share or do something different Like if you have someone, especially at the holidays, that's always been at your Christmas parties, that's always been something, but you know that they had a breakup or their marriage is in struggle or something like that that maybe, not to be so hard on them to, you need to come out, come to the party, come to this Like, just step back and allow them to say no because they might not be willing to do it or be ready for something like that, and it makes it harder for the person who's struggling to keep putting people off because they know they're just going to be faking it if they come out and it's more painful and they're risking losing a friendship potentially.
Speaker 2:And then maybe saying can I connect with you in another way? If you won't come here, can we just hang out, the two of us get some coffee, If it's always?
Speaker 3:been this experience and this has always been what it is. Maybe we need to try something different. Can we go to a movie instead of doing this, because this part's really hard for me. Yeah, so finding something different to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and sometimes people think that they know what to say or that they have all the answers, and they don't. I always say I want to write a book 101, book 101 stupid things I've heard at funerals.
Speaker 2:You know she looks great.
Speaker 3:No, yeah, she doesn't look great, she's dead right.
Speaker 3:You know, it's like yes or whatever you know, all these kinds of things happen all the time, you know I think of that all the time, and maybe priests don't get to do that, but for a lot of people you can think of all of the dead people you've ever seen like that. That. What that looks like and I think too like, is, as parents we used to have funerals for like our fish, for anything that died. We would have these whole like elaborate things to help my children grieve, to learn how to grieve, and I think there are people that haven't had losses, that maybe don't know how to grieve well, and what I would say was, if you're going to experience grief at some point, right, and so if you haven't had the experience and you're not sure, or this is the first year that you have, please reach out, because we have so many books and just different resources that we can give to people and skills that they can pick up to put in their toolkit that they can go to then when they are experiencing it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and sometimes people who seem to have everything together may not.
Speaker 3:Oh right, and so it's important to talk to people when you're struggling. Right, right. Rely on friends if it's the right thing, yeah.
Speaker 1:And we know the types. Hi, I'm highly depressed. Yeah, right, the smile.
Speaker 3:There's a commercial that's circulating right now. I see it when I'm watching the weather and she's got the little stick with the smiley face and she's just holding it walking around and it's like that's what it is for a lot of people on the holidays.
Speaker 1:Yeah for sure. And so are there places in the diocese we could do our church search. And are there places in the diocese that kind of think about this and kind of set up like a little blue time of the holidays? Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 3:We have several parishes now We've started. St Mary's Hudson forwarded us their resources quite a few years ago during the year of the family, so for about five years we started Blue Christmas, which a lot of non-denominational churches do that as well, but it's typically the first holiday without someone that you love and it's like the longest day, but they have a prayer service Actually at St Justin Martyr.
Speaker 3:Beth Rosetti's heading up a whole series for us, for the diocese, and there's going to be three or four different nights. She has it's linked on our website and they're going to do a meal at one of them. But a lot of places Just bring people together and light candles, just so that you know you're not alone.
Speaker 1:That's great. So we'll put all that in the show notes. St Justin Martyr, we've been there. Yeah, a couple meetings.
Speaker 2:So Father Josh Korak, administrator Deacon Tim Schell and his wife Sandy Schell one of the best names of all time they work there. It's in Eastlake and it's a happening place right now. Yeah, that whole west.
Speaker 3:It's so easy to get to off the highway Like. I love that part.
Speaker 2:Although if you get off well, 91, it's easy, but if you get off at 305, the light there because I lived at Mary Magdalene during my Rome it was a three-minute light, oh yeah, so you could like check your email and do some grief counseling While you're there, yeah. But you're right, it is. It's just north of that ball stadium, the baseball stadium there, exactly.
Speaker 1:All right, so St Justin Martyr and we'll throw St Mary Hudson in there as well for Church Search this week and then readings this week. This is the first Sunday of Advent, of course, and you know I like the places in both the Gospel and in the second reading in the talk about heart. You know it's sort of like this is a time to take heart, if you would. You know, beware your hearts do not become drowsy from carousing and drunkenness. I said well, you know, clearly Luke's gospel knows about holiday parties. You know we basically can get all tied up in. You know the parties that we get involved in and the ways that we kind of distract ourselves from what's really important by, you know, kind of getting to go. Not that parties are bad, but that you know we can get distracted by them. Sometimes they become stressful too, right? You know, oh, my God, I have five parties to go to and then you're like wait a minute.
Speaker 1:I'm arguing about a party you know, Right right. And why are we? You know why are we having the party in the first place? But for the Christmas holiday, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's easy when you may be experiencing grief and not even knowing it. This is why I think a lot of college kids get in trouble with heavy drinking and the hookup culture is because maybe they're sad, they miss home and it's easier just to numb the pain by hooking up or getting drunk. And Luke is reminding us here that's not going to be good for you, because your real desire is to be inebriated on the Eucharist, right Like the blood of Christ, and to be loved, and to be loved well, in a chaste way, whether you're married or whether you're single, whatever it is like to really be loved and understood and seen.
Speaker 1:So sins that we fall into we fall into mostly because we're going to the wrong well, to get filled up on what we really desire I used to say in college campuses now you bring that up is that every November people start to get nervous because finals are coming. But, more importantly, the finals weren't really the hard part. The hard part for them a lot of the times was that they have to say goodbye to their friends and they're going home. Going home, which that's fine, right, you know they're gonna go home and they're gonna see their family again, but they don't know how to say goodbye to each other, and so they don't say goodbye to each other, just do mean things to each other. You know they get into a fight so they don't have to say goodbye.
Speaker 1:And so used to say every, every time, I would do something at the end of the semester on saying goodbye. Well, you know, say goodbye, well have. You know, have one last time out, have one last lunch, have one. You know all those kinds of things, especially for seniors. I think it was important, but you know, I think we forget that. You know we have a hard time breaking away from the average things that we, that we do when we're, when we're coming toward the end of something any thoughts on first Sunday of Advent, terry.
Speaker 3:I like the part about the anxieties of daily life and that the day not catch you by surprise, and I think of that when I was looking at this, of the lens of bereavement and grief, just that we need to make sure we're saying our I love you's and our hellos and well goodbyes may be well, and figuring that out. I think that that can be a trap for people, because if that last goodbye isn't done well and something does happen, I think about like and this is when my grandmother I used to take my grandma to church and she had me go to the grocery store and I was supposed to be going on a date and I was so upset because I was like, oh my gosh, I have to go do my grandma's shopping, and this is so frustrating, and that was the last time I saw her and she died the next day and it took like some years to really work through that grief.
Speaker 3:So that line jumped out at me, that those anxieties of daily life and what you're doing and what you're worrying about versus what you should be worrying about and taking it to God.
Speaker 2:I know very little French, but isn't it true that au revoir is till we meet again? I believe so, which is a nice way. Yeah, so it's not a goodbye, it's not a hard line like goodbye, it's done, it's till we meet again. We're going to do this again, whether someone. You'll see them again on the other side of the veil in heaven, right, or I'll see you again after the Christmas break or something Sure, yeah, all right. How are you spending the holiday? How are you spending Thanksgiving? I guess I'm heading to Philadelphia. I've got some friends out there. I'll see our old bishop, archbishop Perez. One of my priest friends got family that has invited me out, so I'll be hanging out with people in Philly this weekend.
Speaker 1:How about you?
Speaker 2:Terry.
Speaker 3:Oh sorry, that's okay. I'm heading to Millersburg, where my parents are from. This is the first time they're back, and it seems like 20 years. We moved them home from Florida. They were usually in Florida from October through May, and so this is the first Thanksgiving to actually have in person.
Speaker 2:Is that Amish country Millersburg? It is so, will you get Amish pie?
Speaker 3:No, we will make pie.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's great.
Speaker 2:And then Mike and Marion used to. So when we first moved away from Wait, did you?
Speaker 1:just speak to yourself in the third person.
Speaker 3:Yes, I did, I was thinking that too. I was like wait, is there another? Mike?
Speaker 1:So my wife and I will be staying home. So what we have done in the past is we used to go home when we had family in New York, but we would go home when we first moved to Buffalo and then here we would go home at Thanksgiving. My wife has a family Christmas party, like first or second week of December, and then we would go home again at Christmas and maybe even stay to New Year's. And it just got too much, you know. It was just. There was three times, you know, going back and forth.
Speaker 1:So finally we made the rule Thanksgiving is Mike and Marion's holiday to spend by ourselves, and so now and sometimes we cook, but the last couple of years we've just ordered food from Whole Foods and, you know, ordered the Thanksgiving dinner from Whole Foods. We just have to reheat it then, and that's a nice relaxing time for us then. Then we can spend more time with each other. So it's good.
Speaker 2:Do you dress up? Are you getting sweatpants or what? Or like mid-casual?
Speaker 1:Mid-casual. Okay yeah, it's not National Dirtbag Day.
Speaker 3:Okay, do you watch the parade?
Speaker 1:No, we do yeah. That's big for Marion. Yeah, I kind of do like the dog show. We don't make a habit of watching it, but I'll watch at least one of the football games usually, but yeah.
Speaker 3:Parade and the dog show. Parade and the dog show.
Speaker 1:Dog show is kind of a new thing. The parade was always on in my house when I was growing up.
Speaker 2:I remember watching Best in Show, which is based on the dog show. That's hilarious.
Speaker 1:It's hilarious. It's a great movie.
Speaker 2:I just saw on X or Twitter yesterday that Planes, trains and Automobiles is 40 years old or 30 years old or something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's got to be.
Speaker 2:With Steve Martin and John Candy. That's a great movie yeah, that's funny.
Speaker 1:It's really funny, exactly.
Speaker 2:All right, so happy Thanksgiving.
Speaker 3:Happy Thanksgiving.
Speaker 2:Happy Thanksgiving and make sure you reach out to people and make sure people have a place to go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. If you know someone who doesn't have a place to go, invite them over.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:All right, we'll have this and a whole lot more next time here on Quest to Faith.
