Question of Faith

Is Exodus 90 Worth My Time?

• Fr. Damian Ference and Deacon Mike Hayes • Season 3 • Episode 2

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Exodus 90 and Magnify 90 offer spiritual programs focused on deepening one’s relationship with God through prayer, self-denial, and community.

• Exploring the essential pillars of Exodus 90
• The role of prayer and sacraments in spiritual growth
• Understanding self-denial and asceticism as necessary practices
• The significance of community support during the journey
• Potential critiques and challenges associated with these programs
• Personal growth as a means to better serve others

Church Search goes to Nativity of the Blessed Virgin Mary in Lorain.

Readings for the 3rd Sunday in Ordinary Time

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Deacon Mike Hayes:

On today's Question of Faith. Is Exodus 90 worth my time? Hey everybody, this is Question of Faith. I'm Deacon Mike Hayes. I'm the Director of Young Adult Ministry here in the Diocese of Cleveland.

Fr Damian Ference:

And I'm Father Damian Ference, the Vicar for Evangelization.

Maria Wancata:

And I'm Maria Wancata, marriage and Family Ministry Specialist,

Deacon Mike Hayes:

maria back in the house

Deacon Mike Hayes:

Yeah yeah, you picked good sub-zero weather to come back in.

Maria Wancata:

Yeah, I've got my vest on to keep me warm.

Deacon Mike Hayes:

I've got a nice sweatshirt on here.

Fr Damian Ference:

And while I have a North Face top, Calla Gill is wearing a matching one today. I actually have a North Face hoodie too that I wore over this I layered I didn't really wear jackets just like layers of North Face stuff. Gotcha Maria comes on the show when we talk about issues of sexuality and fitness. It seems yeah right.

Maria Wancata:

My expertise, right.

Fr Damian Ference:

Because your master's is in theology, with the concentration in marriage and family and morality. So that makes sense and part of the moral life, or part of the good life, is disciplining one's body, because we're body and soul. So what is Exodus 90? And there is a Magnify 90, a women's version. So let's talk about what these programs are and if they're worth our time or not.

Maria Wancata:

Yeah, so I am actually. My husband and I this year are going to attempt to do both of them. So there's Exodus 90 for men and there's actually two versions out there for women, one Magnify 90, the other Fiat 90. I found a group, a community, that's doing Magnify 90. I think in a way it appeals to my husband and I because we are into athletics and fitness and disciplining ourselves.

Deacon Mike Hayes:

Big Phil.

Maria Wancata:

And I think as we get older and grow in our marriage and grow in our relationship with God, something like this, a journey like this, really appeals to us to see if we can grow deeper together but also closer to God, grow deeper together but also closer to God. So within the programs, they're built on three pillars, so prayer, asceticism and community. And I think when you're growing yourself and this actually I think aligns with Bishop's Pastoral Letter, like there's pillars to do that and doing it within community and having a support system is foundational to it. But those three pillars are what help you to grow and flourish.

Deacon Mike Hayes:

Go ahead. I was going to say I think for men. You know, I think Phil would probably resonate with this. You know, when we changed sort of the Lenten fast rules you know, when we weren't all fasting from meat, we were just doing that on Friday you know, we kind of lost that communal sense of all giving something up together, right.

Maria Wancata:

Yeah, yeah, and I can go through some of the things so like for prayer there's in Exodus 90, they go into scripture, exodus itself. There's an app for it. That kind of walks you through everything, gives you a daily reflection. Could we?

Fr Damian Ference:

pause for one minute, so just because we haven't said it yet. So the 90 is about 90 days, 90 days from Easter, 90 days leading up to Easter and this just started yesterday. Yesterday yes, so yesterday would have been the start for many people who are on this 90-day journey that will lead them to Easter. So it starts even before Lent.

Maria Wancata:

Right, right, yeah, frequenting the sacraments. So monthly confession, so beyond that once-a-year duty for confession, making confession a more frequent sacrament. Daily Mass, as best as you can, weekly adoration, and then it gets into the asceticism like no TV or only shows that will strengthen your faith, like the Chosen. Like the Chosen is a good example.

Deacon Mike Hayes:

No social media, right? Yeah, unless you have to do it for work is what friends have told me.

Maria Wancata:

Yeah and a lot of these are kind of like discern as to your state in life, identifying someone to pray for or offering a daily mortification for. Let's see some of the other things not consuming sweets and alcohol or snacking between meals. So a lot of the self-mortification, self-denial.

Fr Damian Ference:

Are there breaks on Sundays, like some people take during lunch, or not?

Deacon Mike Hayes:

That's the criticism Father Damien's got it.

Maria Wancata:

So within my workbook for Magnify 90, it says Sundays and Solemnities may be lesser in self-denial. If there's a major celebration, discern whether you're called to kind of. You know, indulge in the sweets.

Fr Damian Ference:

I like the room for discernment. That makes sense to me because people are in different places. For myself, when I go on a fast, if I give myself a break, it's like I went backwards. For other people, they really enjoy the break and want to celebrate. So I think that makes sense, that there is a sense of discernment, because these aren't like moral absolutes, these are spiritual disciplines, mortifications. It's a practice of asceticism that requires some element of prudence.

Deacon Mike Hayes:

And similar to like other programs, like I did Whole30 once and you know, if you mess up anywhere along the 30 days you've got to go back to one, you know, and start again, so you don't get a break.

Fr Damian Ference:

It's kind of like AA in that A little bit yeah To get your coin Exactly yeah.

Deacon Mike Hayes:

But I gave up such and such for Lent. Oh, but I do it on Sunday and I'm like, if you couldn't give it up for 40 days.

Fr Damian Ference:

come on, you know. But then others will say but Sunday is the Lord's day and he wants you to rejoice, and so this is where the discernment comes in.

Maria Wancata:

Yeah, and I like that. It is important that there is like Exodus 90 for men, magnify 90 for women In Exodus 90, it calls on men to do cold showers, right, that's not.

Maria Wancata:

Oh, it's not one for the women, okay, no, no Interesting Ours actually kind of says you know, don't shop, you know you're giving up social media and other ways to consume. It's easy then to want to like go shopping, buy things for yourself. So it kind of makes those differences, because for women we're trying to cultivate our feminine genius and for the men they're masculine.

Deacon Mike Hayes:

My wife would find that very easy. She doesn't shop at all.

Maria Wancata:

For me it's a sacrifice.

Fr Damian Ference:

I like the notion of asceticism, the mortification, the disciplines, not because the body is bad or because the world is bad. I just finished last night a book club with some friends the Ruthless Elimination of Hurry by Mark Comer and he's a Protestant. But the last chapter of his book he gets into what he calls spiritual disciplines and it's funny. He says we're not just spirits, we're embodied people. So he certainly is on his way to a Catholic anthropology, but he says within there that there are certain things that we can do to slow us down. So I was thinking of Cary Regan, who used to work in our office, who would make a complete stop at every stop sign, not just slow down and almost stop, but a complete stop. Or Ron Nowak, who's the youth minister at St Mary's in Hudson, who during Lent drives the speed limit and nowhere over it. Or refraining from social media or doing certain things, not because you hate your body or you hate the world, or you're trying to like intentionally punish yourself, but you resist things that are good or renounce things that are good for the sake of something that's even better. I mean on a large scale, like celibacy is one way of doing that. But there is something in the Catholic ethos that's really important, when something is important to us and something is holy and and reverent and allows for greater growth, to discipline ourself in such a way where we can even appreciate that more is key.

Fr Damian Ference:

So, like I used to pick on those nuns out in Burton, the Byzantine nuns I've talked to you, deacon Mike, about this before they would fast like randomly throughout the year and I thought that's so silly, like we have lent for that. But the more I went along, the more I realized you enjoy feasts more when you fast more. And I thought that's so silly, like we have Lent for that. But the more I went along, the more I realized you enjoy feasts more when you fast more. And when we used to do the nine nights and night prayer, I would fast for the parishes for nine straight days. So I wouldn't drink alcohol on those days. I had to use social media because I was kind of trying to promote it online. But then that last day it was a great day of rejoicing I'm just finishing a novena now to St Joseph and I fasted from social media for well at least Instagram for nine days and alcohol for nine days, and I think I don't often see the fruits of those fasts right away, but I know they're good.

Deacon Mike Hayes:

And I know that the Lord is pleased that I renounce something for the sake of something greater. I do know that's true. And you don't overdo it is the other thing. It's like you fast from what you fast for and then you go back and you dabble back in. I think, for the danger in some of these things for some people is that they overdo. It is that they say, okay, now I think you mentioned it earlier. You know it's like we're not saying the body is bad. There are some people who will then.

Deacon Mike Hayes:

They'll say you know, yeah, no, okay, yeah, body bad spirit good yeah we're not Manichaeans, yeah we're not that type of folk.

Maria Wancata:

And it's a sacrifice, it's for the sake of the other. A lot of this is built on, you know, john the baptist. I must decrease so he can increase. And so you know, in marriage, like I know, phil would do anything for me, give up anything for me, and this I'm doing for god, like we're doing it for god, for our relationship with God, to point ourselves and others by what we do to him.

Fr Damian Ference:

And in doing it for God, you're able to love your husband more because, then your love is more united with God's love, which allows you to love him even better than you did before the fast or whatever, yeah.

Deacon Mike Hayes:

Some folks would say that the pillars of Lent, you know, prayer, fasting, almsgiving are sort of similar to this, except they've cut out the almsgiving, and they said that one of the criticisms of this, I think, is that is that they're saying that it's too self-focused, almost Pelagian. You know like well we could save ourselves if we just do this, if we become, you know, more fit for God if you would. You know, I've heard some people say those kinds of things as well. So I think, that's a danger in this as well.

Maria Wancata:

Yeah, I know, within the guidelines that they put out in Magnify 90, because of the fasting component that it calls for on Fridays, you're supposed to avoid stepping on the scale. You're not doing this as a weight loss regimen and I think also that's why the community aspect of this is important, so that we can keep ourselves accountable, not falling into the scrupulosity of it or the maybe like self-benefits we might get.

Deacon Mike Hayes:

So you sort of have to select your leaders pretty carefully, someone who won't fall into that scrupulosity.

Fr Damian Ference:

Or if someone is falling into the scrupulosity, the whole community then have to say, hey, no, not that Is there something in the men's group, the Exodus about spending of money, like if there is for the women, you don't shop. Is there something for the men like no gambling or no this or no that, because it would seem that that would naturally flow into then tithing or almsgiving somehow. Not that we tithe as Catholics, but we certainly are asked to give alms, time, talent, treasure, I don't know, but that would seem to be a natural progression from the asceticism. You don't deny yourself simply to deny yourself. You deny yourself to glorify God, and in doing so you become more like God. So your life ought to look more generous.

Deacon Mike Hayes:

Sure, yeah, yeah, that would be the point right.

Maria Wancata:

Yeah, it does say like video games would be like the equivalent way to spend time.

Deacon Mike Hayes:

Oh, I see, yeah, I got it. Yeah, not quite the same thing, because that's still self-focused, right? You're not giving to someone else in that, other than what you said earlier about you know the thing. Like you're not encountering the poor, you're not encountering the vulnerable, you're not going beyond yourself, right, you know. So I think that's one of the dangers in this is that it ends up being too insular. If you would, it would be great if, like the whole group so, a group of guys in my parish did this a couple of years ago, according to one of our staff members, and that they really had a good time with it. But a bunch of them got together later and said now we should do something in service. So your point, I think, is apt that you know that they got together.

Deacon Mike Hayes:

they did this. It was very self-focused, but it did push them forward into the community afterwards. So yeah, maybe afterwards instead of alongside is what are the benefits of this at the end?

Fr Damian Ference:

Yeah, and you can look at it not as a danger but as an opportunity in the same way that you know. When you get on a plane they say if we lose pressure, put your mask on first. So you've got to take care of yourself first before you go save the world. Get yourself in line, but then you're made for service and then you go make a gift of yourself to others.

Maria Wancata:

Yeah, and I mean personally, I haven't gone through this. This will be my first time going through this, so maybe at the end of the 90 days we could see how I could give you my review of it.

Deacon Mike Hayes:

Yeah. And if it does, it will bring you back at Easter.

Maria Wancata:

Yeah.

Deacon Mike Hayes:

If it does what?

Maria Wancata:

I was going to say as a working of it, fulfill like that, that almsgiving, that going out of self to others, just through through the work done internally, spiritually.

Fr Damian Ference:

You guys do that anyway, so yeah, I think, too, it helps to consider these things the way that an athlete or an artist or a musician would consider his or her craft. So if you want to be excellent as a painter or a singer or a guitar player or whatever you're a basketball player, there are certain no's that you are going to have to have in your life no to unhealthy food, no to staying up late, no to partying, in order that you can say one big yes to whatever it is that you've been asked to do. So you deny yourself many things and you say no to many things in order to give one big yes to what's most important. And that's also true in the spiritual life. And sometimes it may look a little strange, you know, say that person's extreme. Sometimes it may look a little strange, you know, say that person's extreme. But then when they come home with their championship or the masterpiece painting, you say, geez, all that effort and all that work really played out. And you congratulate the person for doing that ways. This is the life of the saint, the life of the holiness, who makes God first and foremost and is willing to do radical and nutty and crazy things for the love of God.

Fr Damian Ference:

Again, john the Baptist. My favorite line in scripture is from the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven suffered violence and the violent bared away. So it's also the title of O'Connor's second novel, but the idea is that for Christians, it's also the title of O'Connor's second novel, but the idea is that for Christians, ever since John the Baptist came on the scene, we're going to be attacked. But what's the response to the attack? The violent bared away. It means that Christians, they're not violent toward the world, they're actually violent toward themselves through mortification, asceticism, self-denial, not because they hate themselves or they're angry.

Fr Damian Ference:

It's like I'm going to give up these things. I'm going to make radical decisions for the sake of the kingdom, in order to further the kingdom, and maybe that is giving up something that you really like. I really like sweets, but I'm going to give them up for the sake of something greater. I really like travel, but I'm going to give that up. I'm going to sacrifice it for the sake of something greater, and I think it does take some spiritual maturity to get there, and if you try to do that with the wrong motives, it can get you in trouble.

Fr Damian Ference:

I do think that's right, so it's good. That's why the community is important. The accountability is important that the discipline itself doesn't become your new God, but that you're using these disciplines and these moments of mortification or asceticism in order to worship God and come closer to him. And you know that if the fruits of your disciplines are that you become more angry, become more cocky maybe you've got a six pack now but you're become more vain then this hasn't worked the way that it should. It should make you more generous. It should make you more kind, more patient, more understanding, more loving. It should make your love more pure. That's what I think you want to look for at the end of these 90 days, to see if it did what it was supposed to do.

Deacon Mike Hayes:

Yeah, I'm thinking about folks like Dorothy Day who lived a certain way, lived among the poor, who gave up comforts in her own life and who said often you know, if you're going to work with the poor, be ready to really be uncomfortable because, you're going to become what you're near you know, you're going to become uncomfortable and you're going to become someone who's giving things up that you normally wouldn't, and that will change. It might even change your community as well. So it's a similar kind of vein, yeah.

Maria Wancata:

And I think some of the disciplines it calls for can be very scary to think about doing. And so one of the things my husband and I did is we kind of look through and we're like, well, maybe we can't do all of these but which ones can we do?

Maria Wancata:

or which ones can we, you know, maybe do a part of for year one, because there are people who do this year after year after year, and so it can't, it can't be the same for them every year. There's got to be something deeper that they get each year. And I do relate it to like marathon training.

Maria Wancata:

You don't just go out and run 26.2 miles. You have to train for months and months, and months and your first marathon is nowhere near as good as probably your most recent marathon, if you've been a marathon runner for years some people can't even do a marathon, but maybe they can do a 10k, like do something. Your pace is your something you always work to get better, and that kind of discipline and maybe that small bite size approach is more manageable than jumping in all the way and trying to do it all.

Fr Damian Ference:

Yeah, and a lot of the disciplines you do now for the sake of Exodus 90 or whatever it is that you're doing, may benefit you down the line in some other situation because of something that you learned here. So you're not going to gain and understand all the fruits of these spiritual practices right now, but they're certainly worth doing as long as they're done in faith and in prayer, like Lord. I'm just finishing this nine-day novena now and I'm confident that the sacrifices I make are good and will bear fruit down the line, even if I don't see them now, and I trust that that's the case. But yeah, fasting for the kingdom and uniting our sacrifices to the sacrifice of Christ like that's where it's at, you know.

Deacon Mike Hayes:

Yeah, and when we do all these things together, I think it's important. You know, like you did mention Carrie Regan before, she used to say I think it's important. You know, like you just mentioned Carrie Regan before, she used to say Exit 90 is a bro thing, you know.

Deacon Mike Hayes:

well, you know, not completely wrong. I mean, obviously they have a woman's version of this now, you know. But at the same time I think it was something that the guys in my parish all wanted to do together and they kind of bonded a little bit more closely together because they did that. They had that shared experience.

Fr Damian Ference:

So there's something good about it and I find the fasting and the asceticism, the mortifications, easier to do if you have a particular intention.

Fr Damian Ference:

So whether it's 90 days or nine days or the 40 days of Lent. If someone asks me to pray for him or for her, one of my favorite ways to do it is like through a novena, because the Lord even said some of these demons can only be driven out through fasting and prayer. And if I have someone else on my mind and heart, when I feel like having a drink or going to Instagram and doing this, I say no because, for the sake of this person, I am going to make a sacrifice of myself. I'm going to offer myself as a sacrifice. This is my body, this is my blood, poured out for you in particular, or this particular group or this particular intention. So, if you're struggling with man I don't know if I could do this Think to yourself is there a situation or is there a person who really needs your prayer?

Deacon Mike Hayes:

And then attach your intention to your activity and it'll make it more efficacious for you it's like a marathon runner who runs for somebody else or a certain cause or something like that. I know Marion's uncle, the great deacon Andy Cavalieri that I talk about all the time. He ran the New York City Marathon for Marion's mother who had cancer, and a few other relatives who had cancer and he had their names printed on his shirt and he said every time he got tired he just looked down.

Fr Damian Ference:

It's a communion of saints. I mean, this is what's supposed to happen. It's the body of Christ, that we're not in it for ourselves, but what we do benefits others. And the opposite is true too. When we're not acting according to the life of grace and we're choosing other things besides God, it harms others too. So yeah, all this is important.

Deacon Mike Hayes:

Great, all right, so keep it up. Good luck with Magnify 90.

Maria Wancata:

Thank you.

Deacon Mike Hayes:

You'll be good. All right Church search. Let's go to Nativity in Elton Lorraine. Nativity of the Blessed Virgin Mary.

Fr Damian Ference:

It's one of my top five churches in the diocese?

Maria Wancata:

if not, top three.

Fr Damian Ference:

Well, it's a hidden gem. My classmate, father Craig O'Vanik, is the pastor there it is. If you've ever been to St Stanislaus in Slavic Village, it's like a mini version of that. It's actually in the heart of Lorraine. It's in a rougher neighborhood that used to be, when the steel mills were there, a really happening city neighborhood, but it's a little lighted now, although I think Lorraine is making a comeback. It's Gothic in architecture and the brick is the same tone, the same color as the Basilica at Notre Dame. It's like a golden brick and it's very clean. Father Globko was there before. Father Havanek was the pastor and it's lovely. The music there is great, the people are great. I've given a parish mission there. It's also the site in Lorain County for pilgrimage for the Jubilee year, so you can go there and get your indulgence and, yeah, it's lovely, it's just lovely.

Deacon Mike Hayes:

I'll be out there on Thursday dropping their stuff off.

Fr Damian Ference:

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm heading down to Ashland tomorrow to drop their stuff off.

Deacon Mike Hayes:

Very nice, all right, so yeah, so check out our Jubilee year sites as we continue the great Jubilee year of hope. And let's take a look at the readings for the third Sunday in ordinary time, beginning of the Gospel of Luke. But I also like the second reading this week, which is from St Paul. You know, a body is one but has many parts. So all the parts of the body, though many, are one body, so also Christ, for in one spirit we're all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greek, slaves or free persons, and we're all given to drink of one spirit. We're all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greek, slaves or free persons, and we're all given to drink of one spirit. I always liked that one.

Fr Damian Ference:

Yeah, I agree, and it's one of my mantras around parish life and the diocese in general Figure out what people are good at and let them do it, and don't try to be everything for everyone, even though I know St Paul says he kind of has to do that. But yeah, let people use their gifts because we're different parts of the same body and when we work together we really flourish.

Deacon Mike Hayes:

I always say St Paul's a little Benedictine in that, like when someone presents himself to him, he becomes all things to them at that moment. He doesn't do it all the time. Like you know, that's when someone presents themselves to you, then you can be all things to that person at the moment, but you don't have to do that 24-7 for everybody in the world.

Fr Damian Ference:

Right, Maria. What do you have? Any thoughts?

Maria Wancata:

Well, yeah, I like that reading too, because we're all created unique and unrepeatable and we all are called on a specific mission, but it's the one mission, together to get to heaven and to build up the body of Christ here.

Deacon Mike Hayes:

Don't start singing the song. We are one body, one body of Christ.

Fr Damian Ference:

I sure do. That reminds me of World Youth Day. Yeah right, it's a Gen Xer man. It hits home.

Deacon Mike Hayes:

Was that the theme song the year you went?

Fr Damian Ference:

No, it was 93, and I didn't go that year, and 95 was Philippines, which I didn't go to either. But 97 was in France and that was my first time out of the country and they did play that song there because it was one of John Paul II's favorites.

Deacon Mike Hayes:

Yeah, they play all the old hits if you will.

Fr Damian Ference:

Yeah, Emmanuel was in 2000.

Deacon Mike Hayes:

They're great. Yeah, they certainly played in Toronto and Sydney and Poland.

Fr Damian Ference:

I had it at my first Mass. It was my communion hymn. Very nice, interesting.

Deacon Mike Hayes:

I've sung it a couple times myself, so it's always good.

Fr Damian Ference:

Anyway, we all have our gifts.

Deacon Mike Hayes:

Yes, Anyway, someone who does a great job with language is our good friend Dan Furst over at Briefcase Marketing.

Fr Damian Ference:

Oh yeah, he does well with digital languages in particular. So briefcase marketing creates marketing for your church or church-based ministry that inspires action and delivers results.

Deacon Mike Hayes:

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Fr Damian Ference:

Yeah, and if you need, proof Briefcase Marketing gets great Google reviews. They've done superb work with our friends at Theology of the Body, cleveland, st John Cancius in Tremont. That website's so good. If you want to call Dan first or text him, you can do so at 308-627-1262. And our pal Dan First will take good care of you at Briefcase.

Deacon Mike Hayes:

Marketing. That's briefcasemarketing. We'll put all that in the show notes. Fix your website already, maria. Thanks for joining us. Yep, and if you're doing Exodus 90 or Magnify 90, you're in our prayers this week as you head toward Easter, which will also be my anniversary this year. Oh wow, 23 years Easter Sunday, mike and Mary, longest running Broadway show, all right, so we'll be back next week and we'll have all this and more next time here on Question of Faith, merci.

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