Question of Faith
A weekly question of faith answered by Cleveland Catholics. Fr. Damian Ference, Vicar of Evangelization and Deacon Mike Hayes Director of Young Adult Ministry in the Diocese of Cleveland co-host with frequent guests from the Diocesan Office who join in the conversation. Sponsored by Briefcase Marketing--check them out at https://www.Briefcase.marketing
Question of Faith
What Happens Now That Pope Francis Has Died?
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Pope Francis died on Easter Monday after celebrating Easter one last time on this side of the veil before going home to the Father. We reflect on his legacy and discuss what happens next for the Catholic Church during this time of transition. Both hosts received the news early in the morning and took time to pray and process. (UPDATE: Funeral is now Saturday 4/26
Check out Sarah Hart's new song celebrating Pope Francis' life.
Some Highlights from our reflective show on Pope Francis and his legacy:
• We both admired Pope Francis for his pastoral nature and commitment to those on the peripheries.
• When a pope dies: We discuss the various rituals: his body is prepared for a wake, a funeral Mass & burial takes place quickly, and then the conclave begins after 15-20 days.
• Pope Francis appointed many cardinals from countries never before represented in the College of Cardinals which will make for an interesting conclave.
• Deacon Mike and Fr. Damian discuss some potential papal candidates include Cardinal Pierbattista Pizzaballa from Jerusalem and Cardinal Tagle from the Philippines
• The Easter season reminds us that "death is not the end" as we celebrate resurrection and new life.
• This Sunday is Divine Mercy Sunday featuring the gospel story of "Doubting Thomas"
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Theology of the Body CLE
St. John Cantius Parish
This Easter season, we're invited to show the Lord our wounds so he can heal them, following Pope Francis's example of embracing the wounded and marginalized.
On today's Question of Faith. What happens now that Pope Francis has died? Happy Easter everybody. This is Question of Faith. I am Deacon Mike Hayes, in a subdued tone here today.
Speaker 2:And I'm Father Damian Ferencz Vicker for Evangelization. Happy Easter. He is risen, he's truly risen.
Speaker 1:Amen Alleluia.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so Sad but also happy. Pope Francis died and waited to. You know, when people are dying, a lot of times they have control To some degree over when they die, and I do believe he wanted to celebrate the resurrection one last time On this side of the veil Before going home to the Father, which he did. And then he died on what? Easter Monday, right, yeah, liturgically, before going home to the Father, which he did, and then he died on what?
Speaker 1:Easter Monday, right yeah.
Speaker 2:Liturgically speaking, which is a great time to go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly. It's sort of very fitting, right yeah, for the Pope to die on that day. Where were you when you heard the news?
Speaker 2:In bed.
Speaker 1:Same.
Speaker 2:Because the news was I woke up and the bells were tolling at the cathedral oh right, and I was wondering what's happening? Am I dreaming this or why are the bells tolling? And then I picked up my phone and it was blown up with friends like oh, so sorry, your friend died and those are from my atheist friends, that's funny and other friends Holy Father died, pope Francis died, and so yeah.
Speaker 1:I got a text from Logan Feldkamp, who has been on this podcast, and he said I can't believe to the news that I'm waking up to this morning. And then I looked at my newsfeed and said, oh, pope has died. So I told my wife and then we went and sat and prayed for a little while. Yeah, and you know, and both of us kind of fans of you know, certainly Joy of the Gospel is one of your favorites, I know.
Speaker 2:Not to mention we talked about it this summer, but that letter that he put out on literature, I thought was outstanding too. So those are my two favorite writings of him. But go on, go on.
Speaker 1:And Grandparents.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, yeah, that's good too, and.
Speaker 1:Christus Viva is one of mine, yeah.
Speaker 2:But yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean, I think that it started to be a sad day and it didn't quite hit me right away, right, I was sitting with it for a little while praying and was kind of. I called Father Klebo at St Chris and said hey, do you want me to come over and assist at 11 o'clock? They have an 11 o'clock mass.
Speaker 1:He goes oh yeah, that would be great, and so I said okay, so I planned to go over. I had the day off yesterday and then I came back from that and Sarah Hart the musician she wrote a song about Pope Francis that morning. Oh wow, and it was beautiful. I will post it in the show notes. But it was just beautiful and it was all based on well-done, good and faithful serving.
Speaker 2:Was it on YouTube or was it on her?
Speaker 1:It was on her Instagram and I sat down and listened to it and said you know? I said I couldn't cry all day and I don't know why. And I said and now I listened to this, and now I'm blubbering on my couch, I'm like. So thank you, sarah Hart, for helping me to mourn.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I wasn't surprised. I mean it's always, oh, he died, well, when someone is 88. Yeah, and he was so sick for so long and he really almost died twice just before Lent started and I know that he had a meeting Like he was told to rest. He was such a hard worker he wasn't going to rest.
Speaker 2:And he's 88 years old, so like go out with your boots on and I love that, I love that so much. I love that also. That's how I want to go, and what they what they say actually killed him was a coma and an aneurysm or a stroke.
Speaker 1:It was a stroke stroke. Yeah, they said likely it was a stroke and um did it happen in his sleep?
Speaker 2:do they know I? They didn't say but I presume.
Speaker 1:so I don't know if he was found dead or they didn't give those details. Did they find him dead in his room, or was there some sort of distress that awakened somebody to go in? Do they have a monitor on him all the time now, I don't know somebody to go in.
Speaker 2:Do they have a monitor on him all the time? Now I don't know. Well, our other friend and frequent visitor of this show, father Eric Garris, is currently in Rome. He went for the Triduum and is visiting the other Cleveland priests there and he saw Pope Francis at the Well. He celebrated Mass on Easter Sunday and then I think, he stuck around for the Angelus.
Speaker 2:The Holy Father did not have the Mass. He did speak at the Angelus and then I think, he stuck around for the Angelus. The Holy Father did not have the Mass. He did speak at the Angelus and then the next morning he was at St Peter's early praying at John Paul's tomb when the news broke and then he ran to the square. I know Washington Post had a little piece with Father Garris in it and CNS Hannah Brankus, who's a really good reporter, interviewed him too. So he's representing the CLE in Rome right now for us, which is pretty good. And Father Sean Ralph, the rector of the cathedral, just returned last night I think I heard him come in, but yeah, so the Pope died the day. Father Sean left Rome, so just missed all the hoopla the day.
Speaker 1:Father Sean left Rome, so just missed all the hoopla. Yeah, and the last political person. I guess he's not a head of state, but you know.
Speaker 2:Vice President Vance, JD Vance, who's Catholic Last person I saw him yeah recently Catholic too.
Speaker 1:I was like, wow, he's Catholic. For all five minutes he gets to meet the Pope Very nice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and he posted posted this was before the holy father died that I and I saw the pictures that pope gave him three big easter egg um, I think they're easter eggs and then had other things inside but three gifts for his three children who he travels with, and carries them around, so that's pretty cool.
Speaker 1:One of the things that I've been doing, uh, most of yesterday and one of my friends encouraged me to do this was to to try to look at pictures of the Pope like you know and that they tell like a really good story of him.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and there are all these pictures of him with children, as you just said, you know, and you know he was always kind of like let the little children come to me, like these kids are like running around the place, and he'd have them run up to the you know the run up to the chair and sit with them and kind of give them a little tap in the face every once in a while and kind of be playful with them.
Speaker 2:I loved that about his papacy. Yeah, he was a people's pope, for sure, yeah, for sure, and he will be missed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you ain't kidding. So, it's, it's a, you know, someone's got some big shoes to fill, you know, and uh, and he didn't even wear the papal shoes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, and, and the thing is too like, the Lord provides.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And, as I said I was, I did some interviews with the um, channel three and a couple other news outlets yesterday and they were saying oh, you know, uh, what do we do now? And I said, well, we grieve and we mourn, but this is kind of what happens in a family. Oftentimes, when there's a death, the family comes together and hasn't seen each other in a while. And there's, maybe they have, maybe they haven't, but death is often a time to bring people together and the Pope is the sign on earth of the unity of the church. He's the bridge right. So it can be a wonderful time Again. Sad grief, absolutely, but also joy in the resurrection, Like death is not the end and we celebrate that and believe that, and so we have a joyful hope to see the Holy Father again and our loved ones again and eventually we'll get our bodies back and it'll be wonderful. So, yeah, ultimately it's joyful hope, but right now it is sad and the ritual helps, Like they're waking the body. Now Did they say when the funeral mass is going to be?
Speaker 1:I didn't even know they have not announced yet as of this recording. It'll be, I think, between four and six days of his death, I think is the protocol, if I remember right, and the conclave has to start between 15 and 20 days of his death. I saw some story, though, that said that Francis had moved that up, that he had changed the rules to the Vatican.
Speaker 2:He probably did.
Speaker 1:The conclave has to start no more than nine days after his death, or something like that. But then I didn't see that anywhere else, so maybe the person who wrote it was wrong. Who knows the internet? Any kid could have a website, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, so the question is now that Pope Francis died, what happens next? So the next thing is waking the body, and then the funeral mass, and then the conclave is called right, right, yeah, and I did see that the movie Conclave just dropped on what?
Speaker 1:Amazon, or something yeah, Apple.
Speaker 2:I'm a young Pope fan more than Conclave, but anyway, that's all interesting. But these I mean whether you're Catholic or not, this stuff is very intriguing and interesting and it may be a way to bring other people home or back to the church because the ritual is so great and the dignity of the office is so great and if I was a cardinal I'd be shaking in my boots like the gravity of that office and the responsibility of that office.
Speaker 1:And this is going to be an interesting conclave because Pope Francis named cardinals from all over the world who usually have not been in that position before Correct, and many of them were elected because of their pastoral nature to become cardinals by any other pick by him because of their pastoral nature. And a lot of people don't know what these folks think about theology. They're kind of quiet on certain things and so they, you know. So now you're like, well, is this person gonna vote this way or is he gonna vote this way? We don't really know. You know, what would those people from all over the world? How will that change? Kind of the way this goes, you know, because the factions start to form, you know. Okay, let's all get behind this guy.
Speaker 1:Let's all get behind this guy Now let's talk it out for a little bit. But then you have all these wild cards now are coming in, who might have all kinds of different thoughts, so it might be interesting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, one of the Holy Father's great themes was, you know, reaching out to those on the peripheries and, in terms of representation in the cardinalariat, I don't even know what you call it.
Speaker 1:I think that's right, or?
Speaker 2:the School of Cardinals, college of Cardinals, college of Cardinals. There you go. There are people from around the world that never had a representation before. I'm thinking of that, cardinal Pete Zabala in Jerusalem. Jerusalem never had a cardinal before, even though they have one. And then all parts of the world where the Catholic Church isn't large but there is someone representing the church there and he absolutely loved that. He always went out to where there were even very few Catholics. Like why in the world would the Pope go? There there's only 5,000 Catholics.
Speaker 1:That's exactly why you went there. That's exactly why right.
Speaker 2:To let them know that they matter and they count and they're someone.
Speaker 1:Last night I sat on my couch and looked at all of the cardinal electors and their little bio that someone had put together. They did a really nice job. I'll put the website up in the show notes, but I'm just looking at some of the countries here Sweden, myanmar, nicaragua, the Netherlands, malta, rwanda, haiti, japan, a couple in Japan now South Sudan. I don't think I've ever had a cardinal. I think he's the only cardinal from South Sudan. It's an interesting group of folks, sure, it's an interesting group of folks, sure, and the way I so I sort of sized it up a little bit. If I were a betting man and sometimes I am it looks like there's about 74, so about 135 cardinals. It's hard to tell whether it's 135 or 138, because folks get sick and some folks will turn 80 and there's all these things right, but it looked to me like there would be about 74 cardinals who were kind of in Francis's mode. You know he's either appointed them or they share his thoughts on things. That's a pretty high number, because 90 will be the electing number.
Speaker 1:You need 90 votes to win but then there are 33 that are sort of middle of the road, you know, or the people we just described. You know people who are from places where we don't really know too much about what they think, but they're there for their great pastoral nature. They've been part of the, you know, evangelization of peoples and things like that. And then more in the Benedict John Paul II mode, there's about 28. So if you put the 33 and the 28 together, so if you put the 33 and the 28 together, what's that? 60, 33, 28,. Math is hard 61. So it's a little harder to get to 90 than you would think. You know you'd have to get a bunch of people.
Speaker 2:But keep in mind that John Paul II made Pope Francis a cardinal, as Jorge Bergoglio. That's right, so you really never know how this stuff plays out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's what I was looking at. Yeah, I was looking at the compromise. I said if anybody has any connection to JP II or Benedict and Francis, I put them in the 33 group. So it's interesting, I mean. And the Holy Spirit moves, man, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:The Holy Spirit is—we have a God of surprises, don't we? No one expected Pope Francis to be the Pope Francis, that he was right. John Paul II wasn't on anybody's list for a long time, you know. And then you know, I think Benedict was probably maybe less of a surprise, but I think a lot of people were surprised when he was elected, you know, and he certainly elected quickly you know, so they're gonna the first day they will have one vote, they get together and they only vote once.
Speaker 1:Gonna the first day they will have one vote, they get together and they only vote once. In the first day and then every day going forward from that, they have four votes two in the morning, two in the afternoon, until they can, until they elect someone, and then, uh, what is it's after?
Speaker 1:let me look here After 15 days, I think it is. If no one was elected, then they stop, they take a break, they have a day of prayer led by one of the cardinals, probably by one of the cardinals whose name has been chosen. And they have a day of prayer and then they go back to voting.
Speaker 2:Now, I know that if you're over 80, you're not able to vote Correct, but you can be part of the conversations beforehand.
Speaker 1:Can you be elected if you're over 80? Anybody, any baptized male, can be elected. You or I could be elected, right? Not?
Speaker 2:likely but— no, I just wonder Maybe— but we could. Yes, cardinal Sean O'Malley Correct Baptized in Cleveland. That would be cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was also thinking about him myself. I said that's someone they could pick him if they wanted to. I don't know how that would work practically.
Speaker 2:I don't either.
Speaker 1:Right, I don't think, because if he's not in the room, you'd have to fly him in now and then say, do you accept? And what if he says no? That's a big waste of I think he's an obedient man.
Speaker 2:I think he'd say yes, I think he would say yes also.
Speaker 1:Probably not who knows, he's what 81?. It'd be hard to elect an 81-year-old person, I think.
Speaker 2:And who knows?
Speaker 1:Who knows what the thought will be too. Do they want to elect someone older and have a shorter papacy after a semi-long papacy with Francis, someone who's 13 years, and then you know? Or do you want to elect someone you know who's 57? John. Paul yeah, Sit in that seat for a long time. You know who knows.
Speaker 2:Who knows? I think I mean what we can do is we can certainly pray that the cardinals discern well and choose the best man for the role. I mean that's what it comes down to on our part. We could offer masses and fast and pray for the conclave. It's really important.
Speaker 1:Indeed. Do you have a favorite at this point in time?
Speaker 2:I don't have a favorite, but I'm very impressed with that Cardinal Pete. Really terrible things, yeah, and he is holding fast to the faith and letting his people know that they're loved and that he cares for them, and so much so that he was willing to literally lay down his life for his flock, which I think is pretty awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree, I agree with that sentiment about him.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm not into like the papabalé and the odds and all that. I don't know. I have a bigger fish to fry and I have more work to do here, so I'll just kind of let the conclave do its business and pray for it.
Speaker 1:There are two that I like, and one is Cardinal Taglay, who was at the National Eucharistic Congress. He did the homily for the last mass. Cua grad, yes, he is, yeah, and from the Philippines. Originally. He was the Archbishop of Manila for a while before he took on a Vatican post. I find his sense of humor and his sort of lightheartedness much in the realm of both John Paul II and Francis, I would say. You know so he would be an enthusiastic pope. Enthusiastic pope. World Youth Day will be in Korea, in South Korea. So having an Asian pope.
Speaker 1:I think would be a nice sign to the world. I think it might be time for, you know, for an Asian pope. I think it might be great. And the Philippines is, like 94%, Catholic too, so I mean that would be a huge celebration for that country.
Speaker 2:They held World Youth Day in 1995. And at that point it was the biggest gathering of human beings ever on record, with 5 million or something.
Speaker 1:My friend Jonathan is from the Philippines and he said I went to work and brought enough food and clothing for me for three days because I knew I wouldn't be able to move in the city, and he said he was exactly right. He said it was just so huge. So, yeah, and I shared your sentiment about Cardinal Pizzabala also, I think that with Israel and Gaza right now, that would be a nice sign of saying we need someone who can kind of live out that whole situation, I mean, without divisions. Right, you know we're going to need someone to help bring us all together in so many ways, but that might be a nice sign, I think, for people to see. So pray for those two guys in particular, but pray that the Holy Spirit will inspire these guys in the right way. Yeah, speaking of someone who inspires guys in the right way briefcase marketing. You know what they do. Obviously, they make sure that your church doesn't have a scattered message or a bad website.
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Speaker 1:How was your Easter? I didn't even ask, isn't that horrible?
Speaker 2:of me. Oh, it's fine, it was well. Triduum was fun, but I was all over the place. So Holy Thursday, concelebrated Giant Cancius, I walked with that group of 130 young adults around Tremont Duck Island and Ohio City.
Speaker 1:You know I got to tell you so I'm a little hampered with a heel spur so I couldn't walk the whole route. I did walk a little bit but I drove in from St Chris with Emily Allin and pulled in to St Wendland's as the first place we were going to visit and just the throng of people who were walking in was really impressive. We were like wow, look at this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, our group had 130, and I didn't even plan to be with Catching Fire. It just so happened. That was the parish I wound up at and they were there. And the Maronite group from St Maron's joined in with us too, and I know Charbel. But the other folks were new to me and made some new friends. Father Richard Boner reported over 415 pilgrims to his parish. Wow, and the Korean community said over 400 as well.
Speaker 1:Nice, yeah, yeah, when I got to Father Bona's parish he was at 200, and I was there pretty early it was probably like 935 or something. Yeah, we were there about 1015. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So that was Holy Thursday preached for the bishop on—I had led Stations of the Cross at noon at the cathedral. On Good Friday, preached the liturgy. Good Friday, holy Saturday I was down at Our Lady of Victory in Talmadge and then Easter Sunday, st James, to a packed church in Lakewood, which was awesome. I love going there. So yeah, it was great. It was good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, were you at St Chris the whole time. I was at St Chris the whole time. Yeah, holy Thursday. So first Easter as a deacon for me first.
Speaker 2:Holy.
Speaker 1:Week as a deacon, so that was nice. And so then Holy Thursday was present and served as a deacon, but didn't have any particular role, I would say, other than what I usually do. Yeah, then Good Friday, forgot, didn't forget this, but forgot how hard it was to lie prostrate. We did that. And then I said, as long as I'm near this chair that I could like lean on to get myself back up again, I'll be fine. And so that's what we did. And then I chanted the intercessions that day, and I think I did a really nice job if I do say so myself.
Speaker 1:And then Holy Saturday I had obviously a much larger role, as I carried the Paschal Candle in and I did sing the exalted. It was me and a cantor we sort of split it. He did a line, I did a line, he did a line. Long version, Short version, okay, but I did get to preach, I did get to sing. The Lord be with you.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:I did that part, so that was nice.
Speaker 2:The nice thing about the long version is there's two mentions of bees. Yes, exactly.
Speaker 1:And I did sing that line in the short version, bishop Wust's brother John sung the Exalted down in Talmadge, Did he really?
Speaker 2:And he did a really fine job with that. He has a nice voice. Yeah, he does. Yeah, the whole community down there is awesome too, and they have two seminarians out of that little parish, which is pretty awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's awesome. And then I preached 10 o'clock Mass to a pretty packed house on Easter Sunday, so that was nice. Nice, that's cool. Pretty packed house on Easter Sunday, so that was nice. Yeah, I was surprised that Deacon doesn't usually get to preach on Easter Sunday or Christmas, really, you know. And so they asked me if I would do the 10 o'clock and I said yeah, absolutely. So that was fun. We're still in the Easter season, second Sunday of Easter, and the gospel for this coming Sunday is the Doubting Thomas.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Divine Mercy Sunday.
Speaker 1:Divine Mercy Sunday. Thomas gets a bad rap is something I always say with that gospel. And the doors were locked, they sat in fear. And then, when Jesus appears, thomas is not with them. My question is always where was Thomas? Did he draw the short straw? And they said, hey, you need to go and get provisions. You know we're out of food, so let's draw straws All. Thomas, go ahead, you go out there. Or did he just say I'm sick and tired of sitting here and I'm gonna go If they kill me? They kill me. I'm getting out of here for a little while and maybe just went and take a walk, you know, and then come back? And then he says you guys are hallucinating. I don't believe a word of what you're saying. And then what I love about it is, if you notice, in the gospel, thomas doesn't have to actually touch the wounds of Jesus, jesus just invites him to touch the wounds.
Speaker 1:And then he just says my Lord and my God, without ever doing anything. So that's you know.
Speaker 2:And he may or may not have done it.
Speaker 1:The Caravaggio painting has him doing it, but we don't know for certain.
Speaker 2:We don't know, but we know the invitation was there and I like the wounded business that the Lord wants to make his way into our wounds to heal them, and he does that by inviting us into his wounds, like here. I'm showing you my wounds Now. Don't be afraid to show me yours, because the way to deepen your relationship with the Lord is not to make yourself perfect, because none of us can do that. It's actually to show the Lord where you're hurting and let him in so he could do his healing work on you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and to witness the wounds of others and see them as Christ. And I think that's a great example that Pope Francis gave us, that he was unafraid to go to the wounded to see all the folks who no one would want to see and to embrace them. How many people had, like you know, disfigured faces and things like that, that he embraced and kissed and really led by example. So it'll all be good for this weekend. Amen, amen.
Speaker 2:Good show, see, and maybe by the next time we well, we won't have a new pope by the next time, but you won't hear the Holy Father's name. It's just removed from the Eucharistic prayer, so it's just Edward, our bishop. That's right, unless a priest, out of habit, says it, which happens from time to time. It wouldn't be intentional though.
Speaker 1:Yesterday at Mass, father Clebo just said Edward, our bishop, and I kind of did a double take. I was like, yeah, so it will be that way for a little while until we get a new pope, yeah, and then we'll see what happens. We'll be probably pretty conclave heavy on this show for the next couple weeks. So we'll have that and a whole lot more here next time. On Question of the Week Outro Music.
